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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:33 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:57 pm
Posts: 125
Location: Ontario, ON, CA
I saw a YouTube diy room treatment panel video using towels in a wood frame, complete with sound measurements. The readings were quite impressive.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:25 pm
Posts: 694
Location: Hamilton, ON, CA
wtf22 wrote:
I saw a YouTube diy room treatment panel video using towels in a wood frame, complete with sound measurements. The readings were quite impressive.


handy if you spill your beer...


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 2:52 am
Posts: 259
Location: Muskoka, ON, CA
All good advice above. Here's what I would do, in order of effectiveness and bang for buck.

Rug with thick underpad, covering as much floor as convenient...a huge must.

Speakers out from back wall, prolly about 18-24".

Tame that bass with some HD diy tube traps. This is easy and cheap, and will give oodles of focus.
Get 4 48" lengths(or cut down 8 footers, is easy, they are cardboard) SONO TUBES,12". Fill with
anything sorta soft and absorbent.....a half roll of scrunched up paper towel,even newspaper works great. Stand up in each corner, maybe lifted off the floor an inch or so, use a couple 12" lengths of pine 1x1, or anything really...get them up. If you're happy with the results, you can cover the SONO tubes in fabric later...something felt like. Real easy,these, and can make huge impact. Experiment with stuffing,placement(2...4,2in each of back corners etc). After the rug,single best tweak.

Curtain on front wall,as mentioned above. Mine are the 'backed' ones, room darkening....cheap from Walmart. I would consider for back wall too, depending on how far couch is from it.

I have real difficulty with most wall treatments....I just don't wanna live in a padded cell!, so a less intrusive, but maybe a bit less effective way is Venetian blinds, again cheap from Walmart. I see u have a door in play, so the binds might be a good option, placed on side walls as mentioned previously ( mirror trick). When dropped down,partially opened, they do a good job of breaking up side-reflections. Us ol'time guys would line our rooms with endless shelves of vinyl...same sorta deal with the blinds.

Replace the gear stand with a rack. I can guarantee that thing is resonating like crazy.

I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned the Rotel. That one is one of their better efforts, and I am guessing u bought it for its digital connect ability , but every one of their amps drives my crazy with dry brittle, almost painful, highs. A simple warmer amp and a reasonably priced DAC would be on my list.

My 2cents !


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:47 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:22 am
Posts: 125
Location: Guelph, ON, CA
mac wrote:
All good advice above. Here's what I would do, in order of effectiveness and bang for buck.

Rug with thick underpad, covering as much floor as convenient...a huge must.

Speakers out from back wall, prolly about 18-24".

Tame that bass with some HD diy tube traps. This is easy and cheap, and will give oodles of focus.
Get 4 48" lengths(or cut down 8 footers, is easy, they are cardboard) SONO TUBES,12". Fill with
anything sorta soft and absorbent.....a half roll of scrunched up paper towel,even newspaper works great. Stand up in each corner, maybe lifted off the floor an inch or so, use a couple 12" lengths of pine 1x1, or anything really...get them up. If you're happy with the results, you can cover the SONO tubes in fabric later...something felt like. Real easy,these, and can make huge impact. Experiment with stuffing,placement(2...4,2in each of back corners etc). After the rug,single best tweak.

Curtain on front wall,as mentioned above. Mine are the 'backed' ones, room darkening....cheap from Walmart. I would consider for back wall too, depending on how far couch is from it.

I have real difficulty with most wall treatments....I just don't wanna live in a padded cell!, so a less intrusive, but maybe a bit less effective way is Venetian blinds, again cheap from Walmart. I see u have a door in play, so the binds might be a good option, placed on side walls as mentioned previously ( mirror trick). When dropped down,partially opened, they do a good job of breaking up side-reflections. Us ol'time guys would line our rooms with endless shelves of vinyl...same sorta deal with the blinds.

Replace the gear stand with a rack. I can guarantee that thing is resonating like crazy.

I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned the Rotel. That one is one of their better efforts, and I am guessing u bought it for its digital connect ability , but every one of their amps drives my crazy with dry brittle, almost painful, highs. A simple warmer amp and a reasonably priced DAC would be on my list.

My 2cents !


The Venetian blinds are interesting, and thanks for specifying backed curtains. I don't mind room treatment panels as long as I can get a color that blends with the walls, but it's a small room and less stuff on the walls does help the space.

I'm missing the connection between a gear rack and brightness...not questioning the premise but curious about how it all works together.

I bought it because I liked the sound of my B&W bookshelf speakers and wanted an upgrade in sound and functionality from my old harman kardon AVR. The synergy between B&W and Rotel is largely documented - I'm not sure what you think I should put in the RA-12's place in order to get the same amount of function, compatibility, & ease of use without spending 50% more..


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:36 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 2:52 am
Posts: 259
Location: Muskoka, ON, CA
ruecatinat wrote:
mac wrote:
All good advice above. Here's what I would do, in order of effectiveness and bang for buck.

Rug with thick underpad, covering as much floor as convenient...a huge must.

Speakers out from back wall, prolly about 18-24".

Tame that bass with some HD diy tube traps. This is easy and cheap, and will give oodles of focus.
Get 4 48" lengths(or cut down 8 footers, is easy, they are cardboard) SONO TUBES,12". Fill with
anything sorta soft and absorbent.....a half roll of scrunched up paper towel,even newspaper works great. Stand up in each corner, maybe lifted off the floor an inch or so, use a couple 12" lengths of pine 1x1, or anything really...get them up. If you're happy with the results, you can cover the SONO tubes in fabric later...something felt like. Real easy,these, and can make huge impact. Experiment with stuffing,placement(2...4,2in each of back corners etc). After the rug,single best tweak.

Curtain on front wall,as mentioned above. Mine are the 'backed' ones, room darkening....cheap from Walmart. I would consider for back wall too, depending on how far couch is from it.

I have real difficulty with most wall treatments....I just don't wanna live in a padded cell!, so a less intrusive, but maybe a bit less effective way is Venetian blinds, again cheap from Walmart. I see u have a door in play, so the binds might be a good option, placed on side walls as mentioned previously ( mirror trick). When dropped down,partially opened, they do a good job of breaking up side-reflections. Us ol'time guys would line our rooms with endless shelves of vinyl...same sorta deal with the blinds.

Replace the gear stand with a rack. I can guarantee that thing is resonating like crazy.

I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned the Rotel. That one is one of their better efforts, and I am guessing u bought it for its digital connect ability , but every one of their amps drives my crazy with dry brittle, almost painful, highs. A simple warmer amp and a reasonably priced DAC would be on my list.

My 2cents !


The Venetian blinds are interesting, and thanks for specifying backed curtains. I don't mind room treatment panels as long as I can get a color that blends with the walls, but it's a small room and less stuff on the walls does help the space.

I'm missing the connection between a gear rack and brightness...not questioning the premise but curious about how it all works together.

I bought it because I liked the sound of my B&W bookshelf speakers and wanted an upgrade in sound and functionality from my old harman kardon AVR. The synergy between B&W and Rotel is largely documented - I'm not sure what you think I should put in the RA-12's place in order to get the same amount of function, compatibility, & ease of use without spending 50% more..


I guess the point of the Rotel idea was that if it is the source of the brightness, and in my experience with the brand it could well be, there is little you can do to tame it. It was my last consideration on the list, and maybe the most costly, depending on how you shop......so try the other stuff first.
From your pics and post, what I see (not hear) are some issues that are contributing to a general lack of balance in the room. I think you need to add focus, generate a decent soundstage, and then you will be better able to asses the system as a whole. Enclosed cabinets are notorious for messing up sound as they tend to resonate almost like they are their own speaker. You will find most hi-end racks are open affairs, usually heavy, usually connected to the floor quite solidly (spikes are common). Try this...it's for free!.....
Pull out all the stuff in the cabinet and add some weight (sand bags maybe?..anything really) and throw in some pillows or towels. Then have a listen.
All these tweaks are incremental in nature, and not one single effort is gonna heal your problem(s). Synergy is the best word here. So is experimentation. Most of the stuff I mentioned are cheap to buy, or U have the stuff around. When you mess around with it, you can discover simple solutions, and then maybe go to the more costly, but nicer to live, with remedies.
Point in case...years ago when I was experimenting with isolating vibrations of amps, CD players etc., there was marketed this ball-bearing loaded shelf system. My brain kinda thought it was a cool idea....but it cost hundreds of $$$. So I went to Canadian Tire, got a bag of big ball bearings ($5 I think) and used some door latches (the thingy that the strike goes thru into your door frame ($1.50 each) to hold the bearings in place, and set up the same thing.....all for under $10. Worked a treat too, but was ugly to look at, and made the CD player move around whenever touched. I ended up buying little cones instead, but it taught me how simple, and effective, some of these tweaks can be.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:46 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:22 am
Posts: 125
Location: Guelph, ON, CA
mac wrote:
ruecatinat wrote:
mac wrote:
All good advice above. Here's what I would do, in order of effectiveness and bang for buck.

Rug with thick underpad, covering as much floor as convenient...a huge must.

Speakers out from back wall, prolly about 18-24".

Tame that bass with some HD diy tube traps. This is easy and cheap, and will give oodles of focus.
Get 4 48" lengths(or cut down 8 footers, is easy, they are cardboard) SONO TUBES,12". Fill with
anything sorta soft and absorbent.....a half roll of scrunched up paper towel,even newspaper works great. Stand up in each corner, maybe lifted off the floor an inch or so, use a couple 12" lengths of pine 1x1, or anything really...get them up. If you're happy with the results, you can cover the SONO tubes in fabric later...something felt like. Real easy,these, and can make huge impact. Experiment with stuffing,placement(2...4,2in each of back corners etc). After the rug,single best tweak.

Curtain on front wall,as mentioned above. Mine are the 'backed' ones, room darkening....cheap from Walmart. I would consider for back wall too, depending on how far couch is from it.

I have real difficulty with most wall treatments....I just don't wanna live in a padded cell!, so a less intrusive, but maybe a bit less effective way is Venetian blinds, again cheap from Walmart. I see u have a door in play, so the binds might be a good option, placed on side walls as mentioned previously ( mirror trick). When dropped down,partially opened, they do a good job of breaking up side-reflections. Us ol'time guys would line our rooms with endless shelves of vinyl...same sorta deal with the blinds.

Replace the gear stand with a rack. I can guarantee that thing is resonating like crazy.

I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned the Rotel. That one is one of their better efforts, and I am guessing u bought it for its digital connect ability , but every one of their amps drives my crazy with dry brittle, almost painful, highs. A simple warmer amp and a reasonably priced DAC would be on my list.

My 2cents !


The Venetian blinds are interesting, and thanks for specifying backed curtains. I don't mind room treatment panels as long as I can get a color that blends with the walls, but it's a small room and less stuff on the walls does help the space.

I'm missing the connection between a gear rack and brightness...not questioning the premise but curious about how it all works together.

I bought it because I liked the sound of my B&W bookshelf speakers and wanted an upgrade in sound and functionality from my old harman kardon AVR. The synergy between B&W and Rotel is largely documented - I'm not sure what you think I should put in the RA-12's place in order to get the same amount of function, compatibility, & ease of use without spending 50% more..


I guess the point of the Rotel idea was that if it is the source of the brightness, and in my experience with the brand it could well be, there is little you can do to tame it. It was my last consideration on the list, and maybe the most costly, depending on how you shop......so try the other stuff first.
From your pics and post, what I see (not hear) are some issues that are contributing to a general lack of balance in the room. I think you need to add focus, generate a decent soundstage, and then you will be better able to asses the system as a whole. Enclosed cabinets are notorious for messing up sound as they tend to resonate almost like they are their own speaker. You will find most hi-end racks are open affairs, usually heavy, usually connected to the floor quite solidly (spikes are common). Try this...it's for free!.....
Pull out all the stuff in the cabinet and add some weight (sand bags maybe?..anything really) and throw in some pillows or towels. Then have a listen.
All these tweaks are incremental in nature, and not one single effort is gonna heal your problem(s). Synergy is the best word here. So is experimentation. Most of the stuff I mentioned are cheap to buy, or U have the stuff around. When you mess around with it, you can discover simple solutions, and then maybe go to the more costly, but nicer to live, with remedies.
Point in case...years ago when I was experimenting with isolating vibrations of amps, CD players etc., there was marketed this ball-bearing loaded shelf system. My brain kinda thought it was a cool idea....but it cost hundreds of $$$. So I went to Canadian Tire, got a bag of big ball bearings ($5 I think) and used some door latches (the thingy that the strike goes thru into your door frame ($1.50 each) to hold the bearings in place, and set up the same thing.....all for under $10. Worked a treat too, but was ugly to look at, and made the CD player move around whenever touched. I ended up buying little cones instead, but it taught me how simple, and effective, some of these tweaks can be.


I guess it is time for better gear storage and some Vibrapod/Vibracones and a good padded rug.

This is all a good start, as I'd rather prep the room so I can determine in a better environment if I'm still okay with my equipment...


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