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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:22 am
Posts: 125
Location: Guelph, ON, CA
I have a few basic questions regarding room treatment in my new listening room. Previously lived an in apartment where treatment was not a possibility and a dedicated room was not possible, so I've never tried this before.

It seems to me the hardwood floor is a reflection point that needs to be addressed, but I also think some basic (and hopefully budget minded) acoustic paneling might help behind the speakers. I get decent bass response but when I really turn up the volume the high end narrows and becomes bright to the point of fatigue.

I've found these two products online:

1 - http://www.avshop.ca/recording/acoustic-treatment/ultimate-acoustics-ua-wpw-12-wall-panel-pair

2 - http://www.avshop.ca/recording/acoustic-treatment/ultimate-acoustics-ua-wpb-12-wall-panel-pair

Pictures of the setup are attached. The back wall (behind the speakers) is 117 inches, I sit 115 inches away from the speakers. Speakers are each about 15 inches out from the side wall, 9 inches away from the back wall on the close edge, 11 inches away from the back wall on the far edge. Speakers are about 86 inches apart. I have nothing on the walls, and behind my couch is a computer desk/chair so I'm restricted in how far back I can move my seating position.

My system is composed of a Rotel RA-12 integrated, B&W 601 S2, Nordost Blue Heaven PC on the RA-12 and Cardas QuadLink 5C speaker cable. The brightness comes on earlier in the volume scale and stronger on digital sources (MBP with glass optical cable into the digital input on the RA-12) but still exists on some vinyl (Pro-Ject Debut Carbon with 2M Red, Acryl-It, Speedbox S, AudioQuest Red River IC with custom ground cable). CDs through the Denon 2800 transport (using a Cardas QuadLink 5C PC and older AQ VDM IC) sound similar to the laptop.

I don't really need it to be pretty...WAF is not a factor here. Are the panels linked above a good start, and if purchased, where do I place them to be effective?

Thanks!


Attachments:
room37.jpg
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room26.jpg
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room15.jpg
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:32 pm 
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Location: Victoria, BC, CA
A nice big soft rug, that'll make the room better in every way, even for your feet!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:47 pm 
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Location: London, ON, CA
I'm not trying to distract from the issue at hand. I have always put my system on the long wall. I can't imagine sitting that far from the speakers, and the strong primary reflections from the side in a room like that are a problem.

I know the position of that door would be an issue for seating, but at least play with this to get an idea of what the room is capable of before you treat it. Consider all placement options.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:26 pm 
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Watch this to see the potential of that room:

http://youtu.be/dB8H0HFMylo

BTW, what are you riding?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:48 pm 
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Posts: 416
Location: Comox, BC, CA
Rug with underlay would be a quick start.

I'd consider moving the unit back and speakers forward so there is nothing between the speakers.

For a fast and cheap way to change things, pick up some king size pillows at Walmart or Costco and place them in corners or along walls or even on the walls -- above the stereo or above where you sit. Once you have an idea about placement you can use them for something else when you get panels up.

I'd also consider sitting closer to the stereo to get yourself off the reflective wall behind you.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:15 pm 
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Location: Crystal Beach, ON, CA
I can't say I'm anywhere near an expert. And I am in the middle of trying various methods of acoustic treatment - both absorption and diffusion.

But - one trick that has managed to help tame down most of the various rooms I've had to play with over the last few years was a wall of curtains on the front wall.

Here's a small pic of the current setup - a little messy as I'm still re-arranging components. But, you can see the curtains. They are not thick and heavy - actually, these came from Giant Tiger at $10.00 per panel. And the black 'rod' is the top of a fencepost I picked up from HD.

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Audio setup - Feb 2017.jpg [ 369.05 KiB | Viewed 2162 times ]


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:59 pm 
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Location: Markham, ON, CA
Several things I would do based on the pictures, in this priority.

1) I'd move the speakers well away from the back wall. It seems too close right now.

2) A nice area rug on the floor pls. Remember the underpad which is a very crucial part.

3) As for the acoustic panel, treat the back wall and side wall based on first inflection points. Get a mirror, wherever the place you can see your speakers from your listening position through the mirror that's where your panel should be.

Another thing I can see in the pic is where you put your gears. I'd invest on a good solid rack. Nothing fancy but one from Target is good. It makes a huge diff.

Finally that Macbook.... invest on a Mac Mini run it head-less... and boot it from an SD card, yeah a bit tricky but it's worth the effort !


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:56 am 
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Posts: 555
Location: Athabasca, AB, CA
I wouldn't touch that foam.
As an experiment go to a hardware store and pick up some bags of R-38 insulation and put them in your corners(Standing up).
Don't take the plastic off,leaving it on will reflect any highs that might get absorbed.
It's low end that will collect in your corners and actually the plastic gives more low end absorption without deadening the highs(MEMBRANE of sorts.
Also with leaving the plastic on and you hear what cleaning up the bottom end will do for you,you can take them back to the store for a refund,a free test :D.
I'd also have your set up facing the length of the room if possible.
For me it's treating corners with thick bass traps in corners and then your speaker reflection points.
Those two will make a huge difference.
GIK has tutorials to read and videos,also gearslutz has tons of threads under studio/room acoustics and bass trapping.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:48 am 
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Posts: 125
Location: Guelph, ON, CA
kcross wrote:
A nice big soft rug, that'll make the room better in every way, even for your feet!


That seems easy enough.

L-Man wrote:
I'm not trying to distract from the issue at hand. I have always put my system on the long wall. I can't imagine sitting that far from the speakers, and the strong primary reflections from the side in a room like that are a problem.

I know the position of that door would be an issue for seating, but at least play with this to get an idea of what the room is capable of before you treat it. Consider all placement options.


The way the room is laid out maximizes the space for both listening and my computer desk (not pictured, but against the wall behind the couch...this is probably not the 'ideal' placement but it is necessary.

kwadzilla wrote:
Watch this to see the potential of that room:

http://youtu.be/dB8H0HFMylo

BTW, what are you riding?


Trainer is for my Cannondale CAADX. I'll give that watch, thanks!

mber wrote:
Rug with underlay would be a quick start.

I'd consider moving the unit back and speakers forward so there is nothing between the speakers.

For a fast and cheap way to change things, pick up some king size pillows at Walmart or Costco and place them in corners or along walls or even on the walls -- above the stereo or above where you sit. Once you have an idea about placement you can use them for something else when you get panels up.

I'd also consider sitting closer to the stereo to get yourself off the reflective wall behind you.


I can move the couch forward and the speakers closer, no problem there. I have some spare pillows around already, cool.

PatTanya wrote:
I can't say I'm anywhere near an expert. And I am in the middle of trying various methods of acoustic treatment - both absorption and diffusion.

But - one trick that has managed to help tame down most of the various rooms I've had to play with over the last few years was a wall of curtains on the front wall.

Here's a small pic of the current setup - a little messy as I'm still re-arranging components. But, you can see the curtains. They are not thick and heavy - actually, these came from Giant Tiger at $10.00 per panel. And the black 'rod' is the top of a fencepost I picked up from HD.


Curtains are something I've never considered, I might go down this route.
chuttt wrote:
Several things I would do based on the pictures, in this priority.

1) I'd move the speakers well away from the back wall. It seems too close right now.

2) A nice area rug on the floor pls. Remember the underpad which is a very crucial part.

3) As for the acoustic panel, treat the back wall and side wall based on first inflection points. Get a mirror, wherever the place you can see your speakers from your listening position through the mirror that's where your panel should be.

Another thing I can see in the pic is where you put your gears. I'd invest on a good solid rack. Nothing fancy but one from Target is good. It makes a huge diff.

Finally that Macbook.... invest on a Mac Mini run it head-less... and boot it from an SD card, yeah a bit tricky but it's worth the effort !


Using a mirror for placement is something I've never come across, thanks!

As for the MacBook, it's not a permanent fixture and I primarily play vinyl or CDs so I don't think a Mac Mini is worth the time and money.
I don't really believe my system is resolving enough to denote a difference between the laptop and a headless MM anyhow..

I could definitely use a good stand, that's for sure

drummermitchell wrote:
I wouldn't touch that foam.
As an experiment go to a hardware store and pick up some bags of R-38 insulation and put them in your corners(Standing up).
Don't take the plastic off,leaving it on will reflect any highs that might get absorbed.
It's low end that will collect in your corners and actually the plastic gives more low end absorption without deadening the highs(MEMBRANE of sorts.
Also with leaving the plastic on and you hear what cleaning up the bottom end will do for you,you can take them back to the store for a refund,a free test :D.
I'd also have your set up facing the length of the room if possible.
For me it's treating corners with thick bass traps in corners and then your speaker reflection points.
Those two will make a huge difference.
GIK has tutorials to read and videos,also gearslutz has tons of threads under studio/room acoustics and bass trapping.


R-38 bass traps seem interesting. Bass seems to be fine, however, it's the highs I'm having trouble with. Is this related?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:08 am 
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Location: Athabasca, AB, CA
For the first reflections you could use some OC 703 insulation or Knauf 3lb smooth board.
no plastic on panels which you want for reflection points(Full Range).
Perhaps two per speaker side creating a deeper RFZ.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:01 am 
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Take a look at the various levels of room treatment packages at GIK acoustics.This will give you some examples of beginner packages and advanced.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:08 am 
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Location: Port Coquitlam, BC, CA
ruecatinat wrote:
Bass seems to be fine, however, it's the highs I'm having trouble with. Is this related?


That's obvious, from the pictures the room is a reflection nightmare.

A throw rug is almost mandatory, then placement of your couch relative to your speakers. If you're serious you should get or borrow a room acoustics measuring tool to "see" what's happening.
Do some reading on the realtraps site that was linked.

Also there's some good and easy kits at different budgets worth looking at here:
https://www.long-mcquade.com/?page=sear ... pagination


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:14 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:57 pm
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Location: Ontario, ON, CA
I have a crazy solution. Leave your couch and system where it is but bring your speakers a lot closer to your couch thus creating a near field listening situation. If your speaker cables aren't long enough then bring the couch or system closer. You will hear a lot more detail and won't need to turn the volume up so high. I agree a rug will definitely help dampen things down.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:25 pm 
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Posts: 125
Location: Guelph, ON, CA
wtf22 wrote:
I have a crazy solution. Leave your couch and system where it is but bring your speakers a lot closer to your couch thus creating a near field listening situation. If your speaker cables aren't long enough then bring the couch or system closer. You will hear a lot more detail and won't need to turn the volume up so high. I agree a rug will definitely help dampen things down.


Speaker cables are long enough, but I like loud music so not being able to turn the volume up is a bit of a bummer...

rnrgagne wrote:
ruecatinat wrote:
Bass seems to be fine, however, it's the highs I'm having trouble with. Is this related?


That's obvious, from the pictures the room is a reflection nightmare.

A throw rug is almost mandatory, then placement of your couch relative to your speakers. If you're serious you should get or borrow a room acoustics measuring tool to "see" what's happening.
Do some reading on the realtraps site that was linked.

Also there's some good and easy kits at different budgets worth looking at here:
https://www.long-mcquade.com/?page=sear ... pagination


A rug is a must at this point, probably going to be my next purchase!
Itsnotluck wrote:
Take a look at the various levels of room treatment packages at GIK acoustics.This will give you some examples of beginner packages and advanced.


I have looked at those kits previously, both the Long & McQuade and the GIK Acoustics - is that preferable to a DIY with Roxul?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:36 pm 
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Location: Ontario, ON, CA
ruecatinat wrote:
wtf22 wrote:
I have a crazy solution. Leave your couch and system where it is but bring your speakers a lot closer to your couch thus creating a near field listening situation. If your speaker cables aren't long enough then bring the couch or system closer. You will hear a lot more detail and won't need to turn the volume up so high. I agree a rug will definitely help dampen things down.


Speaker cables are long enough, but I like loud music so not being able to turn the volume up is a bit of a bummer...

rnrgagne wrote:
ruecatinat wrote:
Bass seems to be fine, however, it's the highs I'm having trouble with. Is this related?


That's obvious, from the pictures the room is a reflection nightmare.

A throw rug is almost mandatory, then placement of your couch relative to your speakers. If you're serious you should get or borrow a room acoustics measuring tool to "see" what's happening.
Do some reading on the realtraps site that was linked.

Also there's some good and easy kits at different budgets worth looking at here:
https://www.long-mcquade.com/?page=sear ... pagination


A rug is a must at this point, probably going to be my next purchase!
Itsnotluck wrote:
Take a look at the various levels of room treatment packages at GIK acoustics.This will give you some examples of beginner packages and advanced.


I have looked at those kits previously, both the Long & McQuade and the GIK Acoustics - is that preferable to a DIY with Roxul?







Listening nearfield doesn't prevent you from turning up the volume, you just don't have to, everytime.


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