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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:00 am 
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For those who have been following me on the forums you know that I have been having some problems with my listening room and not having bass. So here is an update - I have made a smaller room in my basement and enclosed it and have remedied a wide variety
of issues. I now I have one last problem too much bass lol - So I have made some broad band absorption panels with Roxul comfort board and it has helped but has not eliminated having too much bass from I would guess 40hz to 80hz... So if you wouldn't mind sharing your design ideas/suggestions that would be great. Or if anyone has had any success in purchasing bass traps? Do the foam traps work?
I spoke with Dennis Foley at Acoustic Fields and he was super helpful and had a ton of knowledge but at about $4000us plus shipping (that's me building his kits my self) its not an investment I can afford right now.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:17 am 
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You may want to investigate making some Superchunk Bass Traps. There is a ton of info if you Google them. They seem like a much more cost effective method and not difficult to build.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:26 am 
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Kawi

Have you done corner bass traps?

There was good discussions somewhere on here about fairly simple basic ones - with the discussion context being "these aren't perfect but will tell you if corner traps will help you".

I've not had the luxury (room setup and wife issues) to do any room treatments really so can't say from experience but the reading I've done seem to suggest that for bass issues the corner traps are a first go to.

That being said if you're one to be so interested in this may I suggest you invest in a http://solen.ca/products/electronics/test-equipment/minidsp-umik-1-minidsp-microphone/ or similar microphone and Room EQ Wizard(amazing free software). Even if you're not using it to program a DSP it's very cool to us to see what affects various things have on your room. I've got one and the engineer in me finds it just plain fun to be able to take such measurements ;-)

It would allow you to see for certain what humps you've got in your listening positions and take some of the guesswork out.

Not cheap but not horribly expensive.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:33 am 
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There are a few vendors on CAM who sell corner bass traps.

You could by ALOT of bass traps for $4000 from these vendors. They are reasonably priced IMO.

I have made DIY traps, but if I was doing it over, I would likely just buy them. My DIY traps do not look as good as the professional ones. So the extra cost over DIY is worth it IMO. But if DIY is your thing, go for it.

The local vendors provide advice as well, if you are looking for it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:54 am 
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Check with Inity Acoustics in the Toronto area. He advertises here in the room treatment section. Quite reasonable in price, you could treat several rooms for less than 4K. :)

I bought four of his corner base traps and regular wall panels while I was in the area picking up gear and they made a huge difference in my room. I just wish I had done this before I sold my Mani 2 Sigs as they would have been keepers in the treated room.

I think my total cost was about six or seven hundred dollars but that was a couple of years ago.

Oh and at least when I was buying, he made clean simple panels, nothing fancy so unless things have changed you won't be finding designer stuff there.

Good luck in your hunt,

Ken.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:32 am 
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+1 to the microphone suggestion. The frequencies you are guessing are the problem could be wildly off. Not knowing specifically your problem with certainty will make it more challenging to solve.

Moving the speakers and/or seating position, even a relatively small amount can have significant effect on perceived bass. Adding subwoofers could help even out the bass response of the room. Trying to trap frequencies in the range you are targeting is difficult because the wavelengths are massive. You are more likely to reduce non-problematic frequencies possibly making your problem seem even worse.

Dsp or equalization can be explored as well and will let you reduce certain problematic frequencies. Of course, these may come with tradeoffs as well. Maybe smaller speakers are more suitable for the room or a non-ported design may roll off in a manner that takes advantage of your apparent huge room gain.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:02 am 
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Here is the room layout


Attachments:
listeningroom.jpg
listeningroom.jpg [ 27.51 KiB | Viewed 1613 times ]

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:45 am 
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I'd get that couch out of the back corners and much closer to the speakers. You are hearing much more reflected than direct sound in the current configuration.

edit I also wouldn't rule out using the long wall for speaker placement.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:11 am 
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Neal C wrote:
I'd get that couch out of the back corners and much closer to the speakers. You are hearing much more reflected than direct sound in the current configuration.

edit I also wouldn't rule out using the long wall for speaker placement.



ya forsure it is... my picture isn't to scale lol

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:42 am 
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This will take some experimentation but this what you do: make some frames out of 1 x 6 and fasten some backer (3/4") around the inside about 2 inches in from what will be the "front". To this backer you will staple some rubberized material or semi-permeable material that will "catch" the bass wave and break it up somewhat. In order for this material to be able to do this, it cannot be stretched too tightly (and it cannot be too heavy) or it will simply reflect the wave back out (generally speaking, you DO want the higher frequencies reflected back out so as not to suck the life out of your system). Try some rubberized building material the consistency of a rubber inner tube or perhaps somewhat lighter. Leave a bit of space behind the membrane and then filled the back of the unit with a layer or two of acoustic or rockwool insulation. The back will be closed in with some plywood while the front can be finished with some looser weave fabric that again, does will not act as a membrane. The units may have to be deeper than 6" and you may end up using 1 or 2 x 8 which will allow you to add more insulation in the back. The membrane material is variable, with some people even reporting good results with a very thin plywood such as a door skin. It really depends on which specific frequencies you are targeting and in this regard, it would behoove you to acquire (or download and burn) a test-tone cd to identify the particular frequencies that are causing the problem. Make the bass trap units of manageable size and plan on using 2 or perhaps 3 on each side of the room, positioned to the side and behind the speakers. Good luck!


Last edited by Mike Smith on Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:49 pm 
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kawihornet wrote:
Here is the room layout


Try giving the speakers the distance of about 7' or so between each other and then move it forward with a distance of 5' from the front wall. And then toe them in slightly towards you.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:05 pm 
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Try a parametric EQ.
There is a Behringer Pro/Parametric DSP 1100 digital EQ that can narrow in accurate frequencies and levels.
There is one for sale in the EQ/Crossover section of CAM.
You could also try an EQ/noise generator with microphone.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:47 pm 
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natalie wrote:
Try a parametric EQ.
There is a Behringer Pro/Parametric DSP 1100 digital EQ that can narrow in accurate frequencies and levels.
There is one for sale in the EQ/Crossover section of CAM.
You could also try an EQ/noise generator with microphone.



Thanks for the tip Natalie

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:33 pm 
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I agree with Randy B. Most bass traps are way too small to work in the frequencies you have suggested. I worked with acoustics and insulation for 30 years. Your room is problematic as the width and length are almost exact multiples. I would walk around room with test tones playing to see where room nodes are and at what frequencies and try to arrange seating to avoid them. It would have been beneficial to have done some research before wall went up. I think bass traps are a waste of time in trying to tame low bass. The size and thickness would have to be enormous. Most people don't realize this and put up 1" or 2" panels on the walls and kill the mids and highs.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:39 pm 
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oddio1 wrote:
I agree with Randy B. Most bass traps are way too small to work in the frequencies you have suggested. I worked with acoustics and insulation for 30 years. Your room is problematic as the width and length are almost exact multiples. I would walk around room with test tones playing to see where room nodes are and at what frequencies and try to arrange seating to avoid them. It would have been beneficial to have done some research before wall went up. I think bass traps are a waste of time in trying to tame low bass. The size and thickness would have to be enormous. Most people don't realize this and put up 1" or 2" panels on the walls and kill the mids and highs.


Read my post. These types of designs do not have to be enormous and they are proven to work. If I can find the link to the website I will post it. These and other traps were originally designed to be incorporated into studios and sound rooms during the construction phase and people now incorporate them into the walls and ceilings if they are building a high end or HT room in the house. Not all of us are in a position to do that however.


Last edited by Mike Smith on Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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