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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:04 pm 
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Location: Belleville, ON, CA
I use the antimode 2.0 which will automatically treat room modes up to 500 hz (range is selectable) and has parametric equalizer function for full range adjustments if desired, plus many other features. I had problem room modes, the worst in the 80 hz range, producing bass boom and masking of other frequencies. I confirmed what I thought I was hearing using REW.

Decided to try the the antimode 2.0 and am glad I did. What I'm hearing now is balanced and articulate bass. Still playing with it, as the options are endless. Room treatments are not an option for me so I will probably always have some form of dsp. And it's not my speakers causing the problem, tried three different sets in the room and always got the same problem room modes.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:59 pm 
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Location: Niagara Region, ON, CA
Thank you all so much for the thorough replies. They really confirm what I have been reading in my research which is that room correction can yield positive results if implemented properly. What caused me to think about this is that fact that my room is currently treated extensively with corner traps and first reflection absorption panels as well as behind the listening position and my speakers are rated flat to below 30hz yet the bass is not what I would expect. I also feel I get vocal smearing yet the midrange on up is exquisite. The fact that the room is almost 25ft in each dimension I feel contributes to room nodes which I'm hoping can be ameileorated with something like the Dspeaker or Lyngdorf. Im currently quite happy with my SB Touch to Bryston DAC so don't really want to think about changing the whole front end and switching to a USB implementation just to use Dirac or the like even though it does seem viable.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:16 am 
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fmelindy wrote:
I use the lowly behringer deq2496 and I can tell you that I wouldn't be without it. I always feel like an audiophile philistine for having it there....until I remove it, that is. It has made such a difference to clarity, soundstaging and bass tightness in my system that I just can't do without it. My room is 13x22 and completely untreated, mind you.


How do you setup the deq2496?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:23 am 
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What exactly do these things do, anyway? Do they flatten the frequency response (where the room may be amplifying certain frequencies, for example) or is there something else going on?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:25 am 
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julesaudio wrote:
You cannot electronically correct for lack of lf energy or significant lf distortion from your speakers. Or to put it another way, you need to have ability to move some air at low frequencies without increasing thd or phase issues. Most "full range" speakers dont publish the distortion vs frequency stats because they dont look good in the lower ranges. So the eq can be doing its job but creating other issues.

Multiple subwoofers in mono + eq will reliably get a good bandwidth in a given space and allow many a speaker system to perform well.


Yep.

This scientifically proven truth finds nothing but the glazed eyes of audiophiles who will do anything else but accept it.

Marc mc

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:57 am 
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marc mc wrote:
julesaudio wrote:
You cannot electronically correct for lack of lf energy or significant lf distortion from your speakers. Or to put it another way, you need to have ability to move some air at low frequencies without increasing thd or phase issues. Most "full range" speakers dont publish the distortion vs frequency stats because they dont look good in the lower ranges. So the eq can be doing its job but creating other issues.

Multiple subwoofers in mono + eq will reliably get a good bandwidth in a given space and allow many a speaker system to perform well.


Yep.

This scientifically proven truth finds nothing but the glazed eyes of audiophiles who will do anything else but accept it.

Marc mc

I'd be interested in trying it but I honestly don't have the space for subs in my living room.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:39 am 
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I first used a Behringer DCX2496, then MiniDSP, and now I use DEQX units. My first experience with a good DSP setup really ruined me for anything else. Room correction is great (especially for bass issues) but driver correction is even better. Combining the two is glorious.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:43 am 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
I know that this is surgery but there are in wall subs mostly passive from many players and of varying quality from Sonance, JBL Synthesis, Klipsch, PSB just to start. And if you have quantity minimal eq becomes useful.

I have achieved good results even with dual 8s in groups. Not flat to 25 mind you but smooth from 120 down to below 50 where many rooms have big issues.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:11 am 
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Location: Mount Pearl, NL, CA
NordicNorm wrote:
fmelindy wrote:
I use the lowly behringer deq2496 and I can tell you that I wouldn't be without it. I always feel like an audiophile philistine for having it there....until I remove it, that is. It has made such a difference to clarity, soundstaging and bass tightness in my system that I just can't do without it. My room is 13x22 and completely untreated, mind you.


How do you setup the deq2496?


I use the Auto EQ function with each speaker tested and adjusted individually, using the behringer ecm8000 mic. I basically stick with the curve that the Auto EQ throws back at me except when it's rather extreme on freq boost or cut at a given frequency and then I'll adjust that one position to be a bit more moderate. I tried using the parametric EQ function but found it wasn't necessary. IT's a constant tweaking experience at the beginning but you get the handle on it pretty quickly. I would describe it as a "steep learning curve" for those not technically inclined, though. I am currently running Monitor Audio Silver 6 speakers. I also have a velodyne sub that I use to supplement the very bottom frequencies. Basically, I added that in after and adjusted the crossover and volume until I get a very gentle downward curve on the bass from 80 hz down using the pink noise test. I find if you try to achieve ruler flat response on the bass at super low frequencies you'll get boomy bass as the speakers and sub get over driven trying to achieve that so a gentle downward curve is good. I have no room treatments and my speakers are placed only about 18" from the walls which was very problematic for me before but with the room correction it has ceased to be a problem. Like another person said here on this thread, since using the room correction I find that everything else is simply unacceptable. When I go back to uncorrected listening, it makes me very unhappy by comparison.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:04 pm 
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Philosophil wrote:
What exactly do these things do, anyway? Do they flatten the frequency response (where the room may be amplifying certain frequencies, for example) or is there something else going on?

Anyone willing to risk answering this or have I already answered my own question?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:23 pm 
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davidam wrote:
I really would like to hear a better implementation like DEQx/Dirac/Acouralte/etc...

I've built a couple of really good sounding DIY speaker systems, using a combination of passive and active cross overs, but my next system will be built using the DEQx. To me, that's got the potential to blow almost anything out of the water....


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:03 pm 
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Philosophil wrote:
Philosophil wrote:
What exactly do these things do, anyway? Do they flatten the frequency response (where the room may be amplifying certain frequencies, for example) or is there something else going on?

Anyone willing to risk answering this or have I already answered my own question?


Although the OP states "Specifically for 2 channel, not HT Audessy type programs" I get excellent sound for both 2 channel music and HT.
I use a DBX driverack pa+ speaker management to drive my 3 way floor-standers actively (also a second one on active surrounds) and individually auto EQ each channel separately for a flat response then use the room correction function on an Anthem MRX receiver.
The technicalities of how the room correction functions is way above my pay grade, but the following link may answer some of your questions

http://www.audioholics.com/room-acousti ... -interview

Regards

Mac

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:15 am 
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Dsp is good as a first step for pinpointing rooms acoustic problems.Next step is addressing the problems with acoustic treatment.Do not keep dsp in system chain!.There no substitute for acoustic treatments,magical dsp which would limit or heighten frequencies screwing around with what the recording engineers laid down is not the way to go.It takes some effort to get it right,there is lots of info on net so study and learn.And if audiophile quality is your goal,analog only no digital,less is more,this is most important,serious audiophiles know this from years of listening and is not debatable.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:42 am 
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Zipp wrote:
Dsp is good as a first step for pinpointing rooms acoustic problems.Next step is addressing the problems with acoustic treatment.Do not keep dsp in system chain!.There no substitute for acoustic treatments,magical dsp which would limit or heighten frequencies screwing around with what the recording engineers laid down is not the way to go.It takes some effort to get it right,there is lots of info on net so study and learn.And if audiophile quality is your goal,analog only no digital,less is more,this is most important,serious audiophiles know this from years of listening and is not debatable.


"Audiophile quality", "serious audiophiles" blah blah... So the recording engineers knew that your room is not perfect and recorded just for one room? And analog only - so no CDs/SACDs, no FLAC?

DSP is the first step in pinpointing the problems, but I have yet to see that the room correction actually perfected the room frequency response. Personally, I have full room treatment, and was able to get my bass response to +/- 6dB, which is still a lot, then I'm using SMS-1 to flatten those extra peaks.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:11 am 
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Location: Rose dale, BC, CA
I'm trying to help people set a system up correctly,this is not my personal belief,this is proven audio science.I have been a learning audiophile for over 40 years,have made many,many mistakes,had all types of systems,listened to and studied some very expensive and elaborate ways to reproduce music through the years.I want people to spend less and get more by suggesting ways to help achieve audio success the first time.Spend ten years studying audio reproduction,then if you don't agree with my suggestions you will be qualified to explain why you don't.Or you may never be.


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