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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:59 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:32 am
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Location: Belleville, ON, CA
For some of us, DSP is the only option for correcting poor rooms. Some of us live with other people who don't want "room treatments" or multiple subwoofers in their living space. I agree, DSP will not always produce a perfect response, depending on what you are striving for, but I've experienced good enough results to make it worthwhile.

I don't agree that DSP is the first step in pinpointing the problems. That can be done with minimal cost using a microphone and free REW software. Any decent DSP solution seems to require spending some bucks.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:21 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:36 pm
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Location: Vernon, BC, CA
Zipp wrote:
I'm trying to help people set a system up correctly,this is not my personal belief,this is proven audio science.I have been a learning audiophile for over 40 years,have made many,many mistakes,had all types of systems,listened to and studied some very expensive and elaborate ways to reproduce music through the years.I want people to spend less and get more by suggesting ways to help achieve audio success the first time.Spend ten years studying audio reproduction,then if you don't agree with my suggestions you will be qualified to explain why you don't.Or you may never be.


Could you provide us with pics of your current setup with treatments for some insight? it must be pretty awesome.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:46 am 
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Location: Charlottetown, PE, CA
Would love to see pics of your setup Zipp. Curious.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:55 pm
Posts: 127
Location: Ontario, ON, CA
bmor wrote:
For some of us, DSP is the only option for correcting poor rooms. Some of us live with other people who don't want "room treatments" or multiple subwoofers in their living space. I agree, DSP will not always produce a perfect response, depending on what you are striving for, but I've experienced good enough results to make it worthwhile.


I've also had good results. My system is in the living room. I use a combination of room correction and a few panels behind the listening area, speakers are far enough away from side walls to avoid strong reflections.

In my case the results have been excellent.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:19 am
Posts: 1469
Location: London, ON, CA
Zipp wrote:
Dsp is good as a first step for pinpointing rooms acoustic problems.Next step is addressing the problems with acoustic treatment.Do not keep dsp in system chain!.There no substitute for acoustic treatments,magical dsp which would limit or heighten frequencies screwing around with what the recording engineers laid down is not the way to go.It takes some effort to get it right,there is lots of info on net so study and learn.And if audiophile quality is your goal,analog only no digital,less is more,this is most important,serious audiophiles know this from years of listening and is not debatable.


The dsp from (for example) Dirac is for averaged room response , presumably if you set it up correctly it has little or nothing to do with what a recording is on isn't doing...it what the room is or isn't doing....SO, as I agree with you on room treatments, and this comes from the experience of building several very expensive well engineered purpose built rooms for clients over many years...I really don't think I can align with what your saying about room correcting DSP...if you have a product like Dirac it is designed to be used full time and as you change your room treatments so should you re-calibrate the Dirac for correction of the new dynamics...they work hand and hand...
Also, and for the record, the idea that a digital front end is somehow inferior to analogue is purely a subjective point of view rather than the "as a matter of fact" way in which you suggest ....in fact , by any objective or subjective measure you wish to apply I would put my all digital front end against all but the elite analogue...
Seems to me your maybe confusing your own successes here with the construct that every room,system setup has a different set of parameters and one solution rarely fits all.
As for Dirac specifically , I have it and have run many of my own filters but as it turns out my room (purpose built correctly) is actually very good and the Dirac doesnt need to correct a whole lot . Therefor my subjective preference with my system in my room is to remove the Dirac processing from the chain...however the DSP on tap for someone struggling with a difficult room is absolutely essential part of the equation, with all the other treatments to surfaces they can afford or be allowed to do....including multiple subs if you can.

-- 05 Apr 2016 21:09 --

James_W wrote:
Zipp wrote:
I'm trying to help people set a system up correctly,this is not my personal belief,this is proven audio science.I have been a learning audiophile for over 40 years,have made many,many mistakes,had all types of systems,listened to and studied some very expensive and elaborate ways to reproduce music through the years.I want people to spend less and get more by suggesting ways to help achieve audio success the first time.Spend ten years studying audio reproduction,then if you don't agree with my suggestions you will be qualified to explain why you don't.Or you may never be.


Could you provide us with pics of your current setup with treatments for some insight? it must be pretty awesome.


BTW....what I take from this comment is your 40 years has more value than mine with respect to knowledge learned??....careful now there are a few of us on here that have an extremely prolific knowledge of this stuff...we may not all agree on certain things but make no mistake there are plenty of worthy and studied opinions here.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:45 pm
Posts: 549
Location: Athabasca, AB, CA
Why would you mess with whats coming out of the speakers only to be messed up more or less by the room.
Put 100,000 speakers in a room full of tiles or concrete basement and what do you get or loaded with carpet ect.
Those 1000 grand speakers sound like crap.
It really is our ROOM


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:06 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:11 am
Posts: 73
Location: Rose dale, BC, CA
First thing to address in audio is your room,if your room is not acoustically treated to compensate for standing waves etc.you won't get there.
Dsp is a cheap band aid ,you have to get your hands dirty and address your rooms acoustic problems.
You can spend unlimited amounts $$$ on gear, but if room is not treated, well your like a dog chasing his tale, there are no shortcuts.
You can try different types of dsp,but in the end most likely you will realize room treatments are the answer.
When I was into competition car audio s.q. we had to use dsp and active x-overs because you can't add treatment,but if it was possible to use treatment in a car we would have treated the **** out of it, and not used any dsp which is another link in the chain playing with your audio signal,less is more.
But I'm not saying don't use active x-overs,they are the best way to reach the very best sound,but going fully active is a very advanced process that is only for the most knowledgeable of audiophiles,that I never see discussed in forums,would nice though as it is the top of the mountain!


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