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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:48 pm 
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I've had a lot of bad luck with rooms over the years...this one is the worst! No matter where I placed the speakers the 50HZ Suck Out was consistent! I tried different speakers and a sub as well! These measurements where taken in the near field position. I finally gave up and went to a headphone system!


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Last edited by jagalus on Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:31 pm 
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Location: Port Coquitlam, BC, CA
EL34 wrote:
rnrgagne wrote:
Sealed vs Ported is irrelevant if it's the room causing the problem.
There's an unfortunate misconception that one cabinet design is more accurate than the other, it's simply not always the case. Ported or baffled speakers can easily be just as accurate as sealed. It really boils down to driver quality and not the cabinet in both applications, however it's easier to get away with a lower quality driver in a ported configuration. This has been exploited by lower end products and is where the reputation of bloated or inaccurate bass from ported designs likely manifested.


Accuracy wasn't my point. I made, and make, no argument about which type of speaker is more accurate. My point was that sealed boxes generally produce less bass energy than ported, and since an abundance of bass energy seems to be the problem, going to a sealed speaker may reduce the overbearing bass OP is experiencing. I have heard that work before.


Again, it's a misconception. What a speaker puts out in terms of bass "energy" has nothing to do with sealed or ported. It's how the unit is designed and what drivers are used.
How the ROOM behaves relative to the listening position is predominantly where the rubber hits the road as far as bass is concerned. Changing speakers to address a bad room is like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. If you have limited speaker placement and listening position options as the OP does, then EQ is pretty much the only viable solution regardless of speakers.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:55 pm 
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If you want to make your wife happy, sell off the system and get a, dear I say it, Bose system. It's pretty, simple, relatively inexpensive, and it doesn't sound half bad.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:07 pm 
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Dilbert wrote:
If you want to make your wife happy, sell off the system and get a, dear I say it, Bose system. It's pretty, simple, relatively inexpensive, and it doesn't sound half bad.


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Someone has to do it!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:18 pm 
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OBI56 wrote:
Dilbert wrote:
If you want to make your wife happy, sell off the system and get a, dear I say it, Bose system. It's pretty, simple, relatively inexpensive, and it doesn't sound half bad.


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Someone has to do it!

Post of the night! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:24 pm 
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Well I don't know about misconceptions. I only wanted to make a suggestion to give the OP some options with his bass issues. So I'll try and avoid any broad generalizations. I've heard boomy systems/rooms improved by subbing in Celestion speakers. I'm not saying he shouldn't try equalization, by the way. I'm pretty pragmatic about such things -- if it works then go for it. But if it doesn't work, or he's philosophically opposed to equalizers, as many audiophiles are, or his wife doesn't want one, etc., another possible route is to try a speaker that doesn't put out as much bass energy as his current speakers. It may not be a perfect cure, but I've heard Celestions improve a boomy situation significantly. I don't know if they'll work in his room. I'm only suggesting it's something that might work based on what I've heard in the past.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:34 pm 
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stereo loving wife is the key......


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:42 pm 
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Location: oakville, ON, CA
Had the same experience. I put all my stereo stuff away when I had kids. After 7 years, set it up in my new basement and was underwhelmed. I thout I had memories of something great that actually was not. I read a lot about room acoustic s and 9 panels and one bass trap later- fantastic. So good that I was inspired to buy a lot more stuff over the last 18 months.

You should eventually move. Buy or build a place with all this in mind. I did..


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:43 pm 
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You have to try!

My basement is L-Shaped, has a low ceiling, and is generally poor from an acoustics perspective. It is the only space I have.

Jim Smith's: Get Better Sound helped me squeeze out significant improvements. And, over the years I've tried several speakers - especially focusing on different designs: floor standers, stand mount, Gallo 3.1's etc... Finally, and unexpectedly, open baffle gave me results far beyond my expectations.

Wayne


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:14 pm 
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OBI56 wrote:
Dilbert wrote:
If you want to make your wife happy, sell off the system and get a, dear I say it, Bose system. It's pretty, simple, relatively inexpensive, and it doesn't sound half bad.


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Someone has to do it!


Ouch. I think I am ditching the wife and moving into the commercial space... :D


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:16 pm 
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I don't get this. According to OP;
Totem Hawk = bad
Paradigm Atom = great
B&W DM602 = better than great

Is the question if he should dump high end front end because inexpensive speakers sound "better than great" and maybe would sound as good with less expensive front end?

To answer this I would suggest trying a cheap front end with the DM602 and decide if that is the right solution for you.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:34 pm 
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I have a terrible bass suck at 50-60hz somewhere in there. Audible on a simple frequency sweep on all speakers I've had in the room except Magnepans. My previous MG12 seemed to be picky with placement to a degree. Only from the back wall. But side reflections and bass suck was never an issue with them. I love my current Adagios, but I know while listening to headphones that my room will never have a flat response. I've gone as far as calculating all the cash I could get out of my system to get really serious with my HP set up. But both are different for me and I can't sit around with the lady or friends around a computer and headphones. I'll just have a system that I worked very hard to achieve in a better room that I will treat better (my woman loves my stereo enough to let me) down the road. Or go back to Magnepan. And the headphones are for when I'm starting to annoy her or her young ones.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:00 pm 
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Lurker wrote:
I don't get this. According to OP;
Totem Hawk = bad
Paradigm Atom = great
B&W DM602 = better than great

Is the question if he should dump high end front end because inexpensive speakers sound "better than great" and maybe would sound as good with less expensive front end?

To answer this I would suggest trying a cheap front end with the DM602 and decide if that is the right solution for you.



No; You've misunderstood (fairly dramatically).
The point was that with what's going on acoustically, the $3400 Totems do not sound anywhere near what they should: not $3400 worth.
Given that excess bass was the main issue, I wanted to try a speaker with very little bass, and what I had on hand were the Atoms. When I said they sounded great, that means they sound exactly like $200 Atoms should, without any weird room influence: they sounded like $200. The same went for the B&W, which were simply a better small speaker I was able to borrow: they sounded like they were supposed to, without any weird room influence: those $350 speakers sounded like $350.

In other words:
Totem Hawk = bad: not sounding anywhere near how they should
Paradigm Atom = great, in the sense that they sounded just as they should have
B&W DM602 = better than the Atoms, in the sense that as a slightly more expensive speaker, they sounded slightly better.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:19 am 
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jagalus wrote:
I've had a lot of bad luck with rooms over the years...this one is the worst! No matter where I placed the speakers the 50HZ Suck Out was consistent! I tried different speakers and a sub as well! These measurements where taken in the near field position. I finally gave up and went to a headphone system!


Situations like yours benefit greatly from multiple subs. That seems to be the only way to smooth out the response (other than headphones).
Careful placement of each sub and setting the phase is key, and measure measure measure!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:27 am 
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Speaker placement is a significant component of the resultant sound one will get and, if one is limited with speaker placement, and experiencing unsatisfactory frequency response performance as a result, then the only real option (short of buying different speakers) is to EQ the response, either with hardware and/or with software.

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