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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:07 am 
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I would get good mini monitors and maybe subwoofer and use something like Lyngdorf integrated with the integrated crossover and full room correction system and I can assure you will be in audio nirvana soon....


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:12 am 
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I see libor also recommends room correction. Remember, boomy is easy, it's bass suck-out that is a different monster.

If you have a mic, you can use REW to do a sweep at your listening position. Then you'll know exactly what's up with the room. Or hire an acoustic tech and they'll do it all for you. dr. joe has some experience with such techs.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:47 am 
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You might try stuffing rolled-up pairs of socks into the ports. Cheap, and might help tame the excess bass.

Cheers,
Alec


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:40 pm 
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Alec_124c41 wrote:
You might try stuffing rolled-up pairs of socks into the ports. Cheap, and might help tame the excess bass.

Cheers,
Alec

Make sure they're washed first.
I'm surprised how much support there has been for EQ. I thought I'd be tarred and feathered for suggesting it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:44 pm 
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Different speakers for now and then talk long term with the wife about living space that can accommodate the requirements you need .


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:20 pm 
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lzp1 wrote:
Alec_124c41 wrote:
You might try stuffing rolled-up pairs of socks into the ports. Cheap, and might help tame the excess bass.

Cheers,
Alec

Make sure they're washed first.
I'm surprised how much support there has been for EQ. I thought I'd be tarred and feathered for suggesting it.


EQ exists in every system that you own -- passive crossovers have EQ built in, active crossovers need their EQ set by the owner. Full range single drivers even have their EQ set by the box/horn length. All use stuffing to change their response.

The problem with passives, is that their frequency response is set to be flat in an anechoic chamber, not your living room. Insert into a living room and that wonderful frequency response you see on the sales literature is gone.

And we all know that matching your systems to the room is a key to get good sound right? So an EQ is actually a necessary element.

Actives by default need an EQ, so they should have a huge advantage over passives as they must be voiced in your room, and most people do nothing to their passives.....

I find there is a terrific difference once well EQ'd. I have EQ'd my watson lab 10's as well, so that I could see the effects before and after. Before, they are bloated. After, they are much much more listenable. That is not to say the speaker is bloated, as it is the room that causes the bloat. Your room may be different, and need a different solution to flatten out -- mine is easy.

And if your primary source is digital, well, you're off to the races! A digital EQ is a wonderful thing.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:30 pm 
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Haven't read the whole thread, so I apologize if this is redundant, but I'd swap out the DAC for something like this unit;

http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/20-dual-core.shtml

Digital room correction is likely the only alternative for limited placement options & bad room. At least you can dial in one listening position to be reasonably accurate. Using a sub would also help if the predominant problem is bass, (assuming you have the option of suitable placement for it).


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:16 pm 
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Location: Ontario, ON, CA
Erik wrote:
And if your primary source is digital, well, you're off to the races! A digital EQ is a wonderful thing.


Measuring and using a digital parametric equalizer from 250hz on down was one of the best things I did, and a couple of DIY acoustic panels didn't hurt either.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:30 pm 
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All the EQ'ing, room correction, changing of speakers are all good, until the wife tells you to sit somewhere else....you will have to start all over again...mind you, you can store multiple room corrections for multiple sitting locations and pick the right one depending on where you sit...


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:17 pm 
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If over-active bass is the issue, you might want to try a pair of sealed speakers. I'm going to show my age here, but something like a pair of Celestion stand mounts, maybe the SL600: http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/ ... -speakers/
or SL700: https://app.audiogon.com/listings/monit ... rs-k2e-7p8


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:10 am 
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Sealed vs Ported is irrelevant if it's the room causing the problem.
There's an unfortunate misconception that one cabinet design is more accurate than the other, it's simply not always the case. Ported or baffled speakers can easily be just as accurate as sealed. It really boils down to driver quality and not the cabinet in both applications, however it's easier to get away with a lower quality driver in a ported configuration. This has been exploited by lower end products and is where the reputation of bloated or inaccurate bass from ported designs likely manifested.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:28 am 
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Location: Gatineau, QC, CA
Buy a mini-monitor of the BBC legacy, never look back... :D


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:47 pm 
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Location: Victoria, BC, CA
The principal single largest determinant of the sound of any given speaker in a room is just that, the room. It is a matter of physics - not voodoo. Certain loudspeaker designs may work better with certain room dimension as will varying your listening position - the work of O'Toole, Sean Olive etc is a good reference source- see the related topic posting on O'Toole's McGill lecture but it is largely trial and error . I recommend getting some hard evidence of what is going on in your room as a fundamental first step.
There are a number of free online calculators that can provide a pretty good idea of the peaks and valleys in your room presuming the dimension are constant . Tools like Room EQ and others are probably more useful and measurement mikes can be rented from place like Long and McQuade. There are also a fair number of advanced measurement software packages available like Accourate as well .Once measured , there are a number of ways to address the nodes etc.with software or hardware based approaches.
An alternative approach that works well esp. if you have limited technical skills is to use some of the more automated solutions like the dsp units noted in other posts or other ones such as TacT processors ( my tool of choice) or something as cost effective as the KRK Ergo ( which does unfortunately need a computer with firewire as an initial step) which has Lyngdorf built in software . Some powered speakers are also coming with built in dsp capabilities.
Headphones as an alternative brings a different set of issues - namely their frequency response and imaging characteristics though if you listen via a computer as a source there are lots of software approaches to this as well.
It should be noted that digital signal processing is nothing like old school equalization and if much more a scalpel than a sledgehammer . There is considerable debate about what frequency bands to apply this to with the consensus being that the bass decade is the most critical given the wavelengths involved.
Room treatments may work as well but again without knowing the full nature of the applicable absorption coefficient for the material and size involved often this is nothing more than guess work.
A couple of resources that I have found very useful are as follows :
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthrea ... post319411
and the step by step walkthrough on this site
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/blogs ... rough-173/

I would encourage looking at both of these links before deciding on any particular approach or change in speakers etc.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:31 pm 
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Location: Kingston, ON, CA
This is an interesting thread. I have often contemplated selling off my good gear and replacing it with much cheaper gear. My system suffers from "bass suck". I have floor standers with transmission ports (PMC). I have moved the speakers around, but really have to put the power to the speakers to get moderate bass. Most of the time, I strain to pull the bass out. Dealers have suggested everything from more power to replacing my pre-amp, to adding a sub. But I keep coming back to the fact that all this gear sounded good at the store. Including the speakers. My room has cathedral ceilings with plenty of Windows. This is really the only place for the stereo.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:43 pm 
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rnrgagne wrote:
Sealed vs Ported is irrelevant if it's the room causing the problem.
There's an unfortunate misconception that one cabinet design is more accurate than the other, it's simply not always the case. Ported or baffled speakers can easily be just as accurate as sealed. It really boils down to driver quality and not the cabinet in both applications, however it's easier to get away with a lower quality driver in a ported configuration. This has been exploited by lower end products and is where the reputation of bloated or inaccurate bass from ported designs likely manifested.


Accuracy wasn't my point. I made, and make, no argument about which type of speaker is more accurate. My point was that sealed boxes generally produce less bass energy than ported, and since an abundance of bass energy seems to be the problem, going to a sealed speaker may reduce the overbearing bass OP is experiencing. I have heard that work before.


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