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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:46 pm 
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Well done, 50.

Sounds like you know where to go from here. Don't forget the pics!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:55 pm 
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Location: St.Catharines, ON, CA
1st and 2nd reflection on side wall and also 1st reflection on ceiling.That's 6 panels already.GIK told me to double up on the Corning OC on a low ceiling such as yours.That means 4 inch thick panels on the ceiling.

Still haven't finished mine :lol:.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:05 pm 
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Itsnotluck wrote:
1st and 2nd reflection on side wall and also 1st reflection on ceiling.That's 6 panels already.GIK told me to double up on the Corning OC on a low ceiling such as yours.That means 4 inch thick panels on the ceiling.

Still haven't finished mine :lol:.


I was hoping to avoid ceiling panels and had read something to the effect of not deadening the room by over treating. It suggested that if the flooring was dampening then you should avoid ceiling treatment.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:58 pm 
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I really don't think 6 panels would be over kill but I guess I don't have first hand experience to pass on.I'm just following the basic principles that GIK lays out in their room packages.You can go all out and do rear corner bass traps and a wall mount bass trap directly behind your listening position is recommended.Hopefully I will get the nail gun and fabric flying this winter.I only have super chunk bass traps and first wall reflection done but not complete.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:06 am 
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Location: SW, ON, CA
zhenya01 wrote:
50gift, how are you installing all this acoustic stuff - panels, diffusers, bass traps? This stuff can't be just added 'by ear'. You need to install panels in specific points, you cannot over do it. There are some basic room analysis software available, google it, download and see what you need.


I tend to disagree on the point
Quote:
...you cannot over do it...
You want some reflectivity in your room. Too much absorption will make the room acoustically dead, like an anechoic chamber. I had a sound engineer help with my design and we decided to put diffusion panels on the back wall of the room behind the listening position rather than panels. This in effect stops the reflection back to the listening position but doesn't absorb the sound.
My room is fairly well balanced and sounds very good (IMHO). I have 4" panels at first reflection points including the ceiling as well as behind the speakers. I have GIK corner bass traps in each corner. I used the plastic diffusion panels on the back wall. I would have preferred the wooden block style diffuser, but properly made, these are very expensive and were outside of my budget. My floor is carpeted and my ceiling is a very rough plaster.
After the speaker distance was finalized and the listening position, we did an 'after' acoustic test. I am fortunate that my room is fairly flat 'acoustically' from 30Hz to 20kHz except for a small bass hump near the back wall. I opted not to put up the second reflections so as to not 'deaden' the room. The absorption is very noticeable when walking from the bar into the listening room if one is talking. You can fell your voice being sucked up by the acoustic material. Its not dead...doing a 'clap' test, there is still some refection in the room.
Overall, the most important and impactful upgrade I have made to my system.

cheers,

Paul

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:56 am 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Paul, after re-reading my message, I definitely got you confused. By 'cannot over do it' I meant what you mean - 'do not over do it'. I have been to the rooms, which had too many panels, and they sounded horrible.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:38 am 
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Paul,
Is it possible for to post some pic's? How did you attach your ceiling panels?
Cheers,


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:00 am 
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50gift wrote:
Paul,
Is it possible for to post some pic's? How did you attach your ceiling panels?
Cheers,


Sure can...until I get my camera out, here is how I have done it. I picked up a box of small screw-in 'eyes'. I put one in each corner of the panel (mine are pine frames). I then screw another set of the 'eyes' into the ceiling close to where the panel eyes will end up. I use nylon ties to snug the panel up to the ceiling. If I have to remove them, I need to cut four ties, so no sweat. Damage to the ceiling is minimal. If you try this, make sure the 'eyes' are large enough to hold the weight of the panel.

I will try to post some pics.

Here you go:

[img][IMG]http://i1325.photobucket.com/albums/u638/pollypocketwaterloo/mount1_zpsfcf8302a.jpg[/img][/img]

[img][IMG]http://i1325.photobucket.com/albums/u638/pollypocketwaterloo/mount2_zpsbd3e1730.jpg[/img][/img]

cheers,

Paul

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:57 am 
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Thanks Paul. Looks pretty straight forward.
Did you try your room w/o the ceiling panels first and then, after installation, found a significant improvement?
So far, I've just placed the panels around the room before wrapping them and already the music is thumping me in the chest :D however, I'm pretty sure there's still some reflection from the ceiling but just concerned about going too far. I guess the worst case is to take them down....


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:18 am 
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50gift

Initially, I didn't put up ceiling panels. I purchased some new equipment and had the sound engineer back to reevaluate my room. He insisted I put up ceiling panels. In my listening room, I have these 70's faux beams across the ceiling. The ideal spot for the panel was on top of the beam....my best guess was put them in front of the beam, and the last third of the panel would catch the reflection. Engineer returned and told me I should move them to the back side of the beam. Or I could add another pair on the back side of the beam...which is what I chose to do. It cleared up some of the 'fuzziness' of the image. It damped the room a little more, but I only have two listening chairs in there and my gear, so it isn't too bad. Engineer told me try the set up for a while and take down the front ones if it seems too damped, but I'm happy with the results currently.

One thing I noticed after installing my treatments; I can turn the volume up a couple more notches and the music is clean, clear, accurate rather than being more like noise when you have reflections. You don't get the second and third generations of the reflected sound hitting your ear milliseconds after the original which sharpens the image, and increases the details that you hear. If you ceiling is smooth (I have faux beams and stalactite-like plaster) you will notice the difference. Treat the ceiling the same as the wall...the sound from your drivers move out in all directions from the centre, hitting the wall, ceiling, and the floor. I have four inch panels on the ceiling to match the panels on the wall. If you have not seen this demo, its worth watching to understand what treatments can do for your room. Imagine playing your favorite song in the first section of the demo compared to the last section.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp56A6TcL1E

Good luck on you treatments.

cheers,

Paul

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:59 am 
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Location: Athabasca, AB, CA
50gift.
Does your OC 703 have the FRK on it for bass trapping.
Seems that absorbs more bass than just plain 703(which plain absorbs mids and highs).
I don't think I'd want plain 703 everywhere as it would definitely suck the like out of your room.
Seems just for first reflection is where plain 703 is used.
Here's a site Ethan Winer the audio expert music player forums,tons of Q+A there.
Ethan is a co owner of RealTraps,which I use now.
I'm using the Mondos 6"bass traps for corners which have a membrane of sorts like FRK that reflects the highs but absorbs more bass,plus 6" will dig lower in frequency than 4".HF style mondos for 1st reflections(plain 703 or 705.
Also if using 703 with the frk facing(toward the room)space them 4"away from the wall as that will give you more trapping also.
My smallish 12 x19x7 room I have 37 traps in the room :shock: .
These are Mondo modules(2'x4'x6")on top with 2'x2'x6" on the bottom,
plus some RT megatraps with RT QRD's on the back wall with 6" thick traps behind those.
The only plain mondos are at the reflection points(4)the rest are the membrane bass traps so the room is not to dead.
Prefer the RT's to gik,but the downside is there friggin EXPENSIVE when shipping comes into play.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:15 pm 
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Drummer,
I'm using the OC 703 for the panels and went with Safe N Sound for the tri-corner (60x22") bass traps. My research also showed much better low frequency characterists with the SnS.

37 TRAPS!!!! Holly cow! I feel OCD with all that I have going on already... Maybe in a few years. :shock:

-- 26 Oct 2014 21:15 --

Drummer,
I'm using the OC 703 for the panels and went with Safe N Sound for the tri-corner (60x22") bass traps. My research also showed much better low frequency characterists with the SnS.

37 TRAPS!!!! Holly cow! I feel OCD with all that I have going on already... Maybe in a few years. :shock:


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:09 pm 
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Well. Done with my DIY. I installed 4 (OC 703) wall panels an 2 (OC 703) ceiling panels along with 3 x 5' tri-corner bass traps. The sound change is an astoundingly great improvement. I'm currently playing with some acoustic software to see what adjustments may be needed. I may remove one or two bass traps as they may be a little over dampened, but I doubt it.

Next on the change list is removal of the wood coffee table (I can move it out when needed now) but my better half wants a new recliner sofa or ?? if I take the coffee table away. :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:39 pm 
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Awesome

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:23 pm 
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I had the same when I move my HT from the basement to the family room BAMMMM got what I was trying to accomplish. ended up selling all my acoustic panels from the man cave and love it sounds the way I wanted it to just in a different room.


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