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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:31 am 
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Location: toronto, ON, CA
I'm having some issue with my new audio room. The Bass is my biggest concern. I'm planning to purchase some panels and bass traps.

Is any expert can come to my room and help & guide me what to purchase and how many panels & traps are need ?

If some one can help me out please pm me and I wouldn't mind to paying for the visit.

Thanks.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:50 am 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Most panel manufacturers have some kind of software or offer a free service regarding where and which panels should be placed in your room. Installing panels and bass traps is not that simple - you can kill the whole room acoustics, make the room sound like a casket from the inside - i.e. no refelections at all. Of course, someone can come, install panels behind your speakers, behind your listening chair and at first reflection points. It will mostly fix highs and mids, but bass trap placement is a whole different game, which is way more difficult than panel placement.

Here is one example of room analysis, but there are many more available online:
http://www.atsacoustics.com/page--Free- ... --ora.html


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:54 am 
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Location: St. John's, NL, CA
I use, and enjoy the results from this manufacturer products..


http://www.primacoustic.com/london-use.htm

http://www.primacoustic.com/app-home-theatre.htm

http://www.primacoustic.com/index-basstraps.htm


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:23 am 
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Location: SW, ON, CA
I have used Jim Farrell from http://www.audiolabs.ca to set up my room and place my acoustic panels. I had tried using the recommendations from the acoustic panel suppliers, but they are fairly general. Jim came to my room with his test equipment and did a before measurement, told me where specifically to place my panels (he sells panels, however, I chose to make my own). He returned after I had my panels in place and fine tuned the system. He moved my listening position, moved my speaker placement and remeasured the room. I am very pleased with his services and he was great to deal with. He is an engineer and charges for his time. That being said, the modifications to the acoustics in my system were by far the biggest bang for my buck in my listening room. Highly recommended, and I have no interest in his company or has he any influence over me or my recommendation. I'm just a satisfied customer who is happy with the outcome.

Paul

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:40 am 
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Location: Athabasca, AB, CA
music player forum has an acoustic Q&A about the 5th thread down under EQ,lots of info there.
realtraps site is another,which they have bass trapping that reflects the mids and highs so your room won't be to dead.
REW is a free software down load to see what's up with your room.
All corners they say are valid for bass traps whether wall/ceiling,floor/wall corners ect.
I'm sure with to many mid/high panels you will definitely kill your top end.
Dealing with the bottom end you actually free up the mid/highs as the bottom isn't mucking up the top.
I'd check the music player forum as Ethan(Realtraps) knows his stuff.
There's no BS there and it's free.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:47 pm 
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Location: Markham, ON, CA
If you want the best, go for the ASC. If you think those products selling by dealers at CAM for $50 or so will solve your problem, by all means.

The placement of your speakers may be one of the sources of your problem as well.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:24 pm 
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Location: toronto, ON, CA
Thank you guys . I contacted Jim and one of our member send me a PM and he is willing to come and help me out.

dts-99, I sent you an email as well regards to your comment.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:19 pm 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
dts-99 wrote:
If you want the best, go for the ASC. If you think those products selling by dealers at CAM for $50 or so will solve your problem, by all means.


Very very misleading statement. As long as you know out of which material the panels are built (i.e. sound absorption coefficients at different frequencies for different thicknesses) you'll be just fine. There is no magic in panels. It's all about physics and materials. If you overspent on brand name panels, it does not mean that other people should follow you.


Last edited by zhenya01 on Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:29 pm 
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Location: toronto, ON, CA
zhenya01 wrote:
Most panel manufacturers have some kind of software or offer a free service regarding where and which panels should be placed in your room. Installing panels and bass traps is not that simple - you can kill the whole room acoustics, make the room sound like a casket from the inside - i.e. no refelections at all. Of course, someone can come, install panels behind your speakers, behind your listening chair and at first reflection points. It will mostly fix highs and mids, but bass trap placement is a whole different game, which is way more difficult than panel placement.

Here is one example of room analysis, but there are many more available online:
http://www.atsacoustics.com/page--Free- ... --ora.html


Do they sell them in Toronto? or just over the on-line ?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:46 pm 
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Location: Brampton, ON, CA
Bass waves are enormous. Since they are so big, it is difficult to specifically target nuisance spikes in the response without harming other frequencies when using room treatments. Like some mentioned, you need to be able to measure what the response is like in various places someone may be sitting. You can get massive spikes and suckouts in the frequency response and these can vary significantly over small distances in the room so you may have to average out some readings.

Ideally you need some sort of equalization to cut the spikes and maybe placement can help with the suckouts somewhat. Getting very low, quality bass can be a tall order in some rooms and imo, if you have one of those difficult rooms you may be better off, or it will certainly be easier, to choose speakers with less low frequency extension and a sealed bass section that may roll off more gently. Some speakers frequency response may look poor on a graph but may integrate better with certain rooms.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:18 pm 
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Location: toronto, ON, CA
The funny thing is I was using my tall speakers in my tiny room in second floor with great sounds but a lack of scale. Now in my basement I got the scale but the bass and little dry sounds what bother me a lot.
My ceiling is made by concrete and its about 8'or 9' foot tall and I think that is causing all these. ( I really don't know )
I'm just little frustrated and hoping some one just come and fix them. sigh...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:50 pm 
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Location: Athabasca, AB, CA
As I mentioned,music player forum.
There are threads about concrete walls,ceiling ect.
I'd go to people who have been doing this for years.
there are around 143 Q&A.
If you don't go to a source you'll be going round and round.
Takes only a few minutes to be a member and Ethan will answer all Q's.
There's another acoustic circle on audiocircle under forums,
Go where they talk room acoustics............or keep goin round and round,
good luck,I went thru something similar until I found a few acoustic sites,end of story were done.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:00 am 
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I've treated my last three listening rooms with GiK Acoustics products and DIY panels. The results are quite shocking (in a good way) in that each of the three rooms when bare had a different sound but when they were treated sounded more the same.

All rooms will benefit from treatment. IMVHO, the smaller the room then the more treatment is neccessary to smooth out the peaky bass response. The peaky bass response and early reflections can make the sound muddy and thin at the same time.

I laugh sometimes when people are unhappy with their sound - either the speaker are boomy or bright, or the amps don't sound right - and they will spend any amount of money upgrading something. If you take, let's say, $2000 (for example, sell your Bryston amps and buy Pass Labs) and sink that into DIY treatments I'd put my mortgage on the line to say the system will sound unquestionably better with the treated room and 'lesser' gear.

There is so much information on the disc/file/record and much of the good stuff gets buried in distortions caused by an untreated room.

RandyB is a sensible character here. Everything in his post is correct. Diligent speaker placement (and listening spot placement) can help create an enviroment with less problematic bass response, but large speakers in a small room is a no-no. EQ can be good, but only effective at one spot in the room which is OK if you're the only one you're EQ'ing for 8)

I don't think it's neccessary to spend all that money on Auralex, unless budget is not a concern... Any product using Owens Corning 703/705 or Roxul will be as effective and much easier on the budget.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:26 am 
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Kwadzilla, you make one point that almost gets lost in that excellent post and that is that the smaller the room, the more treatment it needs. The only thing I would change in there would be to add : the smaller the room, the more care in treatment it needs. Maybe just me, but its not how much treatment you have, but that you have the right kind and amount of it. Then there is the school of thought that says to take the room out of the equation by setting it up for near-field listening, something that has not been discussed yet.

Unless you have 2 identical systems in 2 identically sized and furnished rooms, the old adage of there are no 2 rooms that are completely alike or need the same treatment. Even following a few basic guidelines can take you a long way to better sound.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:26 am 
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Location: toronto, ON, CA
kwadzilla wrote:
I've treated my last three listening rooms with GiK Acoustics products and DIY panels. The results are quite shocking (in a good way) in that each of the three rooms when bare had a different sound but when they were treated sounded more the same.

All rooms will benefit from treatment. IMVHO, the smaller the room then the more treatment is neccessary to smooth out the peaky bass response. The peaky bass response and early reflections can make the sound muddy and thin at the same time.

I laugh sometimes when people are unhappy with their sound - either the speaker are boomy or bright, or the amps don't sound right - and they will spend any amount of money upgrading something. If you take, let's say, $2000 (for example, sell your Bryston amps and buy Pass Labs) and sink that into DIY treatments I'd put my mortgage on the line to say the system will sound unquestionably better with the treated room and 'lesser' gear.

There is so much information on the disc/file/record and much of the good stuff gets buried in distortions caused by an untreated room.

RandyB is a sensible character here. Everything in his post is correct. Diligent speaker placement (and listening spot placement) can help create an enviroment with less problematic bass response, but large speakers in a small room is a no-no. EQ can be good, but only effective at one spot in the room which is OK if you're the only one you're EQ'ing for 8)

I don't think it's neccessary to spend all that money on Auralex, unless budget is not a concern... Any product using Owens Corning 703/705 or Roxul will be as effective and much easier on the budget.


Very well said. +1


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