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 Post subject: Music Stream
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:33 am 
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Can anyone briefly explain what Bit and kHz mean when they say 24/96? I have a modded Sonos set to 96 going into a Chord dac. I mostly stream stations. Was wondering if I’m using the Chord to its full potential, not sure how many stations play over 96Khz?


Last edited by Terry Stephens on Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Music Stream
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:32 am 
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Terry Stephens wrote:
Can anyone briefly explain what Bit and kHz mean when they say 24/96?

brief explination: Higher numbers mean more samples, and potentially more of the original recordings information.
When you convert from analog to digital you take samples of the signal at specific times (kHz) and each sample will have a set amount of possible values (bits).

More detailed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_ ... processing)#Audio_sampling
Quote:
Digital audio uses pulse-code modulation and digital signals for sound reproduction. This includes analog-to-digital conversion (ADC), digital-to-analog conversion (DAC), storage, and transmission. In effect, the system commonly referred to as digital is in fact a discrete-time, discrete-level analog of a previous electrical analog. While modern systems can be quite subtle in their methods, the primary usefulness of a digital system is the ability to store, retrieve and transmit signals without any loss of quality.



bit = Bitdepth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_bit_depth
Quote:
bit depth is the number of bits of information in each sample, and it directly corresponds to the resolution of each sample.


kHz = samplerate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_ ... processing)#Audio_sampling
Quote:
Sampling rate
A commonly seen measure of sampling is S/s, which stands for "samples per second". As an example, 1 MS/s is one million samples per second.
When it is necessary to capture audio covering the entire 20–20,000 Hz range of human hearing,[4] such as when recording music or many types of acoustic events, audio waveforms are typically sampled at 44.1 kHz (CD), 48 kHz, 88.2 kHz, or 96 kHz.[5] The approximately double-rate requirement is a consequence of the Nyquist theorem. Sampling rates higher than about 50 kHz to 60 kHz cannot supply more usable information for human listeners. Early professional audio equipment manufacturers chose sampling rates in the region of 50 kHz for this reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Music Stream
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:01 am 
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Thanks for the info, still not fully understanding, but judging by the limited response, I don’t think many other people understand it either


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 Post subject: Re: Music Stream
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:37 am 
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In a nut shell your modified Sonos is limited to 24bit 96Khz. Don’t knowing what Chord model you are using, but according to their web site all models have the ability to process higher sample rates depending on which connection you use.

If you are streaming off the web, you will have a tough time finding anything higher than 24bit 96Khz – in fact, even that resolution is rare given the bandwidth required. Are you using your Chord to it’s full potential? No! But there is not a lot of material out there that will take full advantage of what the Chord (or many DAC’s) are capable of – especially streaming from the internet. AND….there is no guarantee a higher resolution file will sound better.


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 Post subject: Re: Music Stream
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:22 pm 
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Terry Stephens wrote:
Can anyone briefly explain what Bit and kHz mean when they say 24/96? I have a modded Sonos set to 96 going into a Chord dac. I mostly stream stations. Was wondering if I’m using the Chord to its full potential, not sure how many stations play over 96Khz?


What you are doing is upsampling the signal to 96kHz.
To use the Chord to "its full potential" you would want to feed it a true 192kHz/24bit audio source.

This is not to say that:
1) you would hear any difference over what you are doing now
2) Thw chord is not being properly utalized at this point

In other words, don't fret it....but that DAC is able to process audio signals higher than what you are currently feeding it.


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 Post subject: Re: Music Stream
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:58 pm 
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Terry Stephens wrote:
Thanks for the info, still not fully understanding, but judging by the limited response, I don’t think many other people understand it either

Don't rush to this conclusion after a few hours ... Jared provided a good explanation. It is not possible to fully explain without going into details. In Riders Digest terms, Bit is how deep the signal is, the deeper the better. kHz is how fast the signal is, the faster the better. Standard, so called Red Book, CD is 16/44.1. 24/96 is very good.
No, streaming from the net does not use your DAC, or virtually any modern DAC, to a full potential. But, that's not the only point, you are in good hands, Chord sounds awesome. Says a guy who owns one :)
Enjoy!


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 Post subject: Re: Music Stream
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:24 pm 
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Well, no the Chord has way more to offer.

You refer to 'stations'; I assume you mean radio over internet then.
Just imagine, Radio Paradise is offering cd quality broadcast. And that is rare!
It's playing some material at 16/44.

Where 16 is a limited dynamic range (better as others indicate, is 24 bit-depth).
And 44 is a limited frequency width (tho' we all know 20 kHz [approx. 44/2] is supposed the top end of human hearing!).

Imagine further that most radio stations - and even including those on cable via t.v. - send an output at 120-160kbps, with only a few, eg. Radio 3 on BBC from UK, at 320kpbs.
What does that mean in reality? That the signal is : [an approximation to] 16/20 or 8/40 in the case of the latter BBC example.
This matters because you are losing either dynamic range or frequency width. Either way, it's not great.


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 Post subject: Re: Music Stream
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:27 pm 
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Terry Stephens wrote:
Can anyone briefly explain what Bit and kHz mean when they say 24/96? I have a modded Sonos set to 96 going into a Chord dac. I mostly stream stations. Was wondering if I’m using the Chord to its full potential, not sure how many stations play over 96Khz?


Everyone else has provided good answers. Maybe my words can help as well.

24/96 represents two parameters (values) used to recreate an analog audio waveform (music). One without the other is meaningless.

The 24 represents the precision of voltage samples taken. the 96 represents the rate at which those samples are taken.,

The first one (24) represents the size of the digital word (24 bits) used to specify a given voltage of a sample. The larger the word the greater the precision available to define a voltage is.

The second one (96) represents the number of samples per second. In this case 96K samples per second.

In other words your DAC reads one 24 bit word 96 thousand times a second and uses that data stream to recreate the analog waveform (music).

These two values must be carefully matched to be useful.

While I'm at it, MQA adds sweet F all to this process. Its sole purpose is encryption.

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 Post subject: Re: Music Stream
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:40 pm 
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Audio_Guy wrote:
In other words your DAC reads one 24 bit word 96 thousand times a second and uses that data stream to recreate the analog waveform (music).

Not quite....the DAC is just converting the stream to analog which is done continually, the 96kHz refers to the the ADC stage...the Analog to digital conversion stage is where the signal is sampled 96 thousand times per second.

When converting an analog signal to digital you cannot keep all the information you must take samples. How many times (kHz) and how many possible values (bits).

I agree with you MQA opinion though!
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 Post subject: Re: Music Stream
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:42 pm 
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Jared Rachwalski wrote:
Not quite....the DAC is just converting the stream to analog which is done continually, the 96kHz refers to the the ADC stage...the Analog to digital conversion stage is where the signal is sampled 96 thousand times per second.

When converting an analog signal to digital you cannot keep all the information you must take samples. How many times (kHz) and how many possible values (bits).

I agree with you MQA opinion though!


I'm not sure I follow your objection to how I described the DAC processing of the incoming data stream. I left out quite a few steps for simplicity. At the end of the day the DAC will lock onto the incoming data stream. If that data stream is 24/96, (ignoring overhead) then the DAC at the processor/chip level will load a register with a 24 bit word derived from the data stream once every 1/96000 of a second and output a corresponding voltage that is used to reconstitute the analog wave form.. There is a lot of other stuff that goes on, but that is the short story.

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 Post subject: Re: Music Stream
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:30 pm 
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44.1k/16 is the CD rate which is 1,411 kilobits per second (44,100X16X2) -

44.1 is the number of samples taken per second - 16 is the number of bits per sample often called the bit depth. A bit can have only 2 values; on or off - usually expressed as a 1 or 0 (off)

96/24 is standard hi-res which is 4,608 kilobits per second - over 3x the resolution of CD

192/24 is the next level of hi-res is 9,216 kilobits per second - over 6.5 the resolution of CD

highest resolution so far achieved is 384/32

Many folks think it should be very hard to hear a difference between CD and the higher samples.

Others say the higher the sample the closer to nirvana

In practice it depends.


Last edited by RalphH on Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Music Stream
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:06 am 
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Very much appreciate all replies, I have a better understanding. The modded Sonos seems to be doing a good job with the Chord. I’m only streaming music stations from internet. As some stated, not the greatest sources.


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 Post subject: Re: Music Stream
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:25 am 
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Terry Stephens wrote:
Very much appreciate all replies, I have a better understanding. The modded Sonos seems to be doing a good job with the Chord. I’m only streaming music stations from internet. As some stated, not the greatest sources.


Have you tried Tidal? I find the $20/mo high-res subscription a great value. Lots of material @ 24/192.

They have a free trial offer.

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 Post subject: Re: Music Stream
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:29 am 
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Thanks, but I believe the Sonos will only 24/96 no matter what


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