two2the8 wrote:
Hey CAM folks, I've done a bit of buying here this year and lurked (and learned!) a bunch from hanging out, but this is my first forum post. Hi!
I've been saving up some cash for a turntable this year so I can listen to the small stack of records that's growing in my living room. I know there are endless threads about what makes a good entry-level turntable, vintage vs. new, etc., and I'm working my way through them... on the whole, I'd prefer to buy new because I like warrantees and return policies, and I like what I've read about the Rega tables. I'm on a limited budget, and my amp (NAD C740) doesn't have a phono stage, so I also need a phono preamp.
Wading through the endless possibilities, at my budget (~$600) it seems like I can head in a couple of different directions: I can buy all the turntable I can get (something like the Rega P1) and pair it with a cheap preamp like the ART DJ-Pre, or I can buy a bit less table (RP-1, for instance) and use the remaining funds to spring for a nicer preamp (maybe the Schiit mani, or the Rega Fono Mini). Any thoughts out there on the merits of one approach over the other?
Thanks for any advice you've got!
Hey T28: If you can find an older Thorens TD-149 (older) or newer TD-160 MKI-to IV (at reasonable cost), it would be MUCH better sounding than the RP-1 ever could. Or, a Systemdek IIX (sprung-model), again in the $200-$300. range, if possible.
I'd first strongly urge you to rethink the entire turntable thing -today's digital (even streaming 128-320 kb/s from respectable sources/stations) sound incredible !
I must inform you I was a serious CD hater from CD's inception (circa 1982) to about the turn-of-the-century when I finally took the digital plunge and began selling off my nearly 2K LP collection -saving my irreplaceable 100 or so, that I have to this day. There was no looking back. Absolutely no regrets .
This entire T/T 'revival' I find odd -there'e no way it compares/competes with even basic steaming digital.
If you wish to indulge, you will discover high noise, less than pristine records (even new) and although vinyl can sound really nice (and engaging -sometimes even fascinating), one soon realizes the enormous shortcomings of the format -noise, Inter-modulation distortion - IMD- and plain old audible distortion, surface noise ( ticks, pops, hiss) potentially poor LF performance/quality (arm/cartridge mis-match) and glaringly impaired performance (SQ) as the tonearm approaches the records end (lead-OUT grooves). Additionally, Rega's are notorious for speed inconsistencies -run too fast.
All of these inherent shortcomings can be impressively minimized by better hardware, but that my friend will cost thousands. A great turntable/arm is the one Marantz commissioned (a German maker?) to manufacture, the TT1? I think. That is a great sounding table/arm -$2K new, $1K used ?
To extract the best from this format, a premium phono-stage (and of course cartridge) is demanded. The resultant SQ can be quite impressive -at a price. And then, unless one has an effective (transparent) sub-sonic filter (in the phono pre-amp), your loudspeakers woofers will be oscillating frantically when/if the record is slightly warped, or a poorly matched arm/cartridge has been (inadvertently) united.
(Ideally, a tonearm/cartridge should be selected in order to achieve a 8-12 Hz. resonance frequency. This is determined by cartridges compliance and effective moving mass of the arm. I have great doubt anyone pays attention to this today). The list of considerations is near endless with vinyl replay.
If you wish to move forward (with vinyl), also consider (new/used) tables from Revolver ? (I think- NO, I was thinking Project!) or models from re-birthed Technics (Audio Technica). In fact, one of my absolute favourite entry-level tables (from the 1980's) were th Technics "P-Mount" models SB-100? models, even the basic belt-drive from back then. If you find one, the owner should gladly hand it over free of charge. If Technics was smart , they'd re-introduce some o those excellent (sounding) lower priced models. Perhaps there is something out there today comparable that I'm unaware of -a very likely possibility. lol
Sooo, before you invest (upwards of $1K, if not more) when all is said an done, I's strongly recommend to reconsider this entire vinyl/table thing. Do not 'buy-into' the false notion that (regardless of quality) this format somehow offers a magical SQ experience. The format can easily attain the "musical" designation, but how far are you willing to search and invest in both the required hardware and software ?
Finding quality used LP's is simply a shot-on-the-dark undertaking; some may be 'clean' (not-visible by naked eye), while most you can bet will demonstrate noisy 'grooves' and audible distortion -particularly at the records end -the lead out grooves.
May I suggest a nice DAC/Streamer and cables, Sir !
Whatever you decide, Enjoy ...
peter jasz