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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:02 pm 
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Teo Audio wrote:
OBI56 wrote:
Chipmunk1957 wrote:
So Obi..
Would you say that an Ortofon 2m red with an output of 5.5 mv would give ample volume with 40 db gain?


Its smack in the ballpark of what "used" to be considered as normal/up to existing standards back in the day before CDs came onto the market. When CDs arrived, the new norm/standard was set at twice the output voltage, but the original standard for magnetic phonos was never updated, hence the much lower output from a TT/phono stage compared to a CD. There was no need to update the standard for phono stage output voltage when CDs arrived because CDs were supposed to completely kill off the LP, but it still survives using the old standard output voltage from the 1950s.

The nominal output voltage standard for phono stages (tuners and tape decks too BTW) has always been 500mV and the nominal output voltage for CDs was initially set at 1V and later set at 2V, so unless you have a phono stage with enough gain, you will never overcome the inherent nominal voltage output difference.

So, why aren't modern mass market phono stages designed to the same nominal output voltages as CDs and other newer sources? Well, because phono stages are basically time proven/public domain designs that are easy to copy and reuse without modifications and that work well within those standards. When you double or quadruple the nominal output voltages you increase noise by similar amounts, bump up against output overload limitations, etc ... all of which would require a major redesign of the entire phono stage circuitry; not a trivial undertaking monetarily speaking for most manufacturers.

Some manufacturers have gone ahead and done this (EAR, Rogue, Herron, Manley and Lehmann for example, but I doubt you could find one for $50), but at some pretty scary prices for buyers looking to keep the phono stage under $50. And don't even try to copy those new circuits as they are often proprietary, patented and covered by licensing agreements that would cost mass market manufacturers more then the cost of a good old fashioned phono stage.



It's a gain vs noise vs distortion- kinda thing. The 'gain per stage' limit, is set in stone to a degree, and then we cascade them. When the input level moves out of the 'sweet and clean' range, too low or too high for the given phono gain circuit --we hear it.

Thus, we have a gain window that is then mated to a given cartridge's output level and other aspects. Every now and then, we find a great match.

Tube phono stages have a higher linear range of amplification, for the most part, all things being equal (the inherent linearity tied to the high voltages, and the near zero mass plasma aspect). If properly executed, and all things being equal... a well executed tube phono preamp has a chance of being better sounding, to our ears -with a broader range of cartridges- as compared to a well executed solid state phono preamp. With a bajillion phono cartridges vs a bajillion different circuits, both tube and solid state... the game begins as an almost crap shoot affair...and tends to continue like a crap shoot affair. This is especially true at the lower cost end of things.



So if I Liked the way my cartridge/TT sounds with my old amp, audition new amps, not a new phono pre.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:11 pm 
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I would say not necessarily.
A newer amp may lead to a more revealing scenario with your system.
This may not be a good thing if you find fault with things that might be revealed with a newer amp.
When you listen to your new cartridge you may want to see how it behaves with your existing phono pre first.
Im kinda in the same boat waiting to see how my 2m red will sound with a fairly inexpensive pho pre before i do anything else.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:29 pm 
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Chipmunk1957 wrote:
I would say not necessarily.
A newer amp may lead to a more revealing scenario with your system.
This may not be a good thing if you find fault with things that might be revealed with a newer amp.
When you listen to your new cartridge you may want to see how it behaves with your existing phono pre first.
Im kinda in the same boat waiting to see how my 2m red will sound with a fairly inexpensive pho pre before i do anything else.



OK so I really liked (blissfully ignorant) how my boheme sounded through my Budgie phono pre into Yamaha r-n602

But

The Yamaha has found a new purpose, i could simply buy a replacement but as I didn't use half the features.....thought about a new "less is more" integrated.

You are right, a new integrated might show me things I don't want or wasn't expecting......


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:59 pm 
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triathleteman wrote:
Chipmunk1957 wrote:
I would say not necessarily.
A newer amp may lead to a more revealing scenario with your system.
This may not be a good thing if you find fault with things that might be revealed with a newer amp.
When you listen to your new cartridge you may want to see how it behaves with your existing phono pre first.
Im kinda in the same boat waiting to see how my 2m red will sound with a fairly inexpensive pho pre before i do anything else.



OK so I really liked (blissfully ignorant) how my boheme sounded through my Budgie phono pre into Yamaha r-n602

But

The Yamaha has found a new purpose, i could simply buy a replacement but as I didn't use half the features.....thought about a new "less is more" integrated.

You are right, a new integrated might show me things I don't want or wasn't expecting......

Don't mean to disway you in any way.
You should do some research based on your previous listening experience to make a good amp purchase.
Some amps are more revealing than others and some give you more of what you have with your existing gear.
I guess it's the synergy thing in me talking.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:02 am 
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My Douk arrived.......with an european outlet....it was shipped from Germany not China as the ebay ad stated...could that be why?

Also the wallwart says 25v, yet the back of the unit says 18v.

any other DOUK users able to shed some insight on what I can/should use for a wall plug? 18v or 25v??


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:42 pm 
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My Lenovo laptop psu is a match for the preamp.....

For $85 this is a deal. I spent an additional $100 for a pair of Mullard ef95 tubes.

For $200 I am a believer that this is one awesome piece of equipment. It's not going to take the place of my budgie preamp, but it is probably the best preamp under $400 (with upgraded tubes).


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:38 am 
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Bumping this thread due to an update. Patched my Nobsound 6J1 tubed phono-stage into my Onkyo TX-SR805 via the 'direct inputs'. This turns the monster Onkyo into basically a power-amp with a volume control. I thought this little phono-stage had good sound before, but in this configuration the results are astonishing to say the least. Huge, fidelious, detailed, slamming sound like I've never experienced before. Wow...
:!:
I realize that this type of set-up might not be for everybody, seeing as most rigs incorporate some type of preamplifier or line-stage in order to access multiple sources. Hell, I just bought a nice tube preamp myself a couple of months ago. But then the big Onkyo fell in my lap for free & I just had to check it out. Glad I did. Patching the Nobsound 6J1 directly into the Onkyo has raised the sound quality level to unheard-of heights. And that is some sweet, sweet candy...
8)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:07 am 
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Apparently there's also an MC version of this phono-stage...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Class-A-Si ... type=price
:?:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:24 am 
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Sorry to revive a thread, but has anyone tried this version?

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2017-Lastest-Little-Bear-T7-Valve-6J1-Tube-Phono-Stage-RIAA-MM-Phonograph-Preamplifier-Stereo-Pre/813423_32763501468.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.RGERNs

Image

Could throw my basic AUX cable through that as well, and it's pretty inexpensive...

Also, the price on the original units seem to have gone up - worth it now...?

(https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Douk-Audio-Latest-Mini-6J1-Vacuum-Tube-Phono-Turntable-Preamp-MM-MC-RIAA-Hi-Fi-Class/813423_32802076291.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.RGERNs

Image

Wouldn't mind trying either of these units - using an AVR right now and the phono stage isn't anything to write home about...


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:33 am 
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Not yet - just ordered it - thanks for the heads up.
I like the input and output is in the back - big improvement


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:41 am 
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magman888 wrote:
Not yet - just ordered it - thanks for the heads up.
I like the input and output is in the back - big improvement


No problem - it may take 2 months to ship but I think I'm going to order one as soon as I find another set of matching ICs for my setup...


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:47 am 
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I paid +$14 to get it sooner - I will report back


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:58 am 
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magman888 wrote:
I paid +$14 to get it sooner - I will report back


Just ordered mine - couldn't turn down $62 shipped.

I've done some reading and there's a Yaqin tube buffer of some sorts that uses the same tubes as this and people are replacing them with a Mullard tube with good results...

Found the Mullard tubes for a reasonable price on eBay - http://www.ebay.ca/itm/PERFECT-BALANCE-PAIR-5654-M8100-CV4010-MULLARD-RTC-6AK5-EF95-LITTLE-DOT-AMP-2/132256477563?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:41 am 
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Wow, $20 a pair shipped, sounds like a steal, just might try a pair


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:49 pm 
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Cheap is just that, and cheap tube phono preamps are nothing more than cheap phono preamps with tubes that appeal to the hipster vinyl 'cool factor'. :roll:

Spend another $100 or $200 and get a decent preamp. No amount of verbal rationale will make the cheap ones sound any better.

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