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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:16 am 
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Location: Brampton, ON, CA
Also, using 20% isopropanol, apparently there is slight concern that such brief exposure can degrade/dissolve part of the vinyl. How great a likelihood with perhaps one wash and rinse ?

PVC (vinyl) is not soluble in Isopropanol, so diluted with water there is no concern. The Isopropanol helps reduce surface tension of water so it wets out (spreads evenly) over the record. It has been mentioned that plasticizer can be extracted by use of alcohol but again diluted with water unlikely to happen. The good thing with Isopropanol it evaporates so no residue is left on the record and helps water to evaporate quicker. Surfactants (Triton X-100) generally will not evaporate and can leave a residue so they need to washed out after cleaning with them.

Quality of vinyl for used pressing records could be the main source of noise from a new lp. The PVC contains pigment and its dispersion quality may (don't know for sure) be a source of noise as the surface of the record may not be smooth as it should be if its not uniformly dispersed into the PVC to a fine particle size. No cleaner will get that out.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:55 pm 
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Location: Kingston, ON, CA
cyberflush wrote:
Also, using 20% isopropanol, apparently there is slight concern that such brief exposure can degrade/dissolve part of the vinyl. How great a likelihood with perhaps one wash and rinse ?

PVC (vinyl) is not soluble in Isopropanol, so diluted with water there is no concern. The Isopropanol helps reduce surface tension of water so it wets out (spreads evenly) over the record. It has been mentioned that plasticizer can be extracted by use of alcohol but again diluted with water unlikely to happen. The good thing with Isopropanol it evaporates so no residue is left on the record and helps water to evaporate quicker. Surfactants (Triton X-100) generally will not evaporate and can leave a residue so they need to washed out after cleaning with them.

Quality of vinyl for used pressing records could be the main source of noise from a new lp. The PVC contains pigment and its dispersion quality may (don't know for sure) be a source of noise as the surface of the record may not be smooth as it should be if its not uniformly dispersed into the PVC to a fine particle size. No cleaner will get that out.



The record vinyl has the additional issue of heat causing it to outgas the chemicals that keep it soft and malleable, ie able to be moved about when it is hot. The ph and the thermal characteristics of the vinyl, when hot enough to flow, are totally off compared to what you want for a good mix.

Getting a pigment to mix properly in such a matrix is a thing that has to be done as a pre-dillution to/in an expected additive...Otherwise the problem you speak of will occur.

This is the sort of problems that the makers if lets say, PVC window blinds in China - run into. They don't yet possess the lore required to do it right.

Says Ken, with his 7-8 years of hanging out in the factory and lab of Tri-art (which made the goo systems products, which I have to know everything about, in order to be an authority on video screens and video screen coatings..) Particle size. mixing, dispersion, etc, these things are all the core aspects of making a good coating. In this case, directly relatable to making good vynil.

My best guess is that adding lamp black to a vinyl mix is a thing that happens most effectively when the vinyl is heated and fluid... and is on the verge of disaster due to the heat added. The things we want to happen are in opposite directions to one another.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:17 pm 
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Location: Thornhill, ON, CA
^^^

Plus the recycled material used in vinyl in North America in the past might not have pressed as well.

I'd be upset if I caused any degradation of the records I am trying to improve. My concern might stem from reading how ethanol containing fuel can accelerate degradation of rubber in a cars fuel lines. Probably not a rational concern.
Had I finished my degree would have been in biochemistry btw.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:53 am 
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Location: Waterloo, ON, CA
toddc2 wrote:
I'll post an update if I learn anything else as I get more experience with it.


I installed a pump and filter system similar to Rushton's. It was a little harder to source the exact parts in Canada so I ended up with:

Sicce Syncra 0.5 aquarium pump found at a local aquarium supply shop
10 feet of 3/8" Inside Diameter clear hose (really only needed 4 feet or so)
Pentek 158110 3/8-Inch 5-Inch Slim Line Clear Filter Housing from Amazon.ca
Pentek PD-1-934 Polypropylene Filter Cartridge, 9-7/8-Inch x 2-1/2-Inch, 1 Micron from Amazon.ca (big mistake see below)
3ea. 1/2" NPT x 3/8" barb connectors from OntarioBeerKegs.com
3ea. 3/8" NPT x 3/8" barb connectors from Home Depot
1ea. 3/8" female cap for sealing the drain end out of the filter when not in use

I learned a few things:

1. I taped the joints with teflon tape but still got some leakage. I had to tighten the connections a little tighter than I would have liked to to stop the drips.

2. The gasket on the filter housing MUST be greased prior to use, the damn thing leaked like a sieve without the grease. I had some white lithium grease normally used on my turntable bearing that did the trick.

3. The aquarium guy told me I could cut a 10" filter in half for my 5" filter housing, but that really didn't work well. I tried to cut it with a hacksaw and made a mess of it. I am using one of the halves temporarily but I ended up ordering the 5" filters from Amazon.ca (Hydronix SDC-25-0501 NSF Sediment Filter 2.5-Inch OD X 4 7/8-Inch Length, 1 Micron, Pack of 2). They have a 3-4 week lead time.

Once the 5" filters arrive I plan on filtering the water after every batch of records.

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Audio: VPI Classic 3 w/Sumiko Pearwood Celebration MkII -> ARC PH6 -> ARC Ref2 MkII -> ARC VT100 MkIII -> Magico S1. Cables are Siltech 550/770.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:04 am 
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Location: Waterloo, ON, CA
Just a quick update on the ultrasonic cleaner after cleaning about 50 records:

1. I changed the white Teflon tape to the water-joint specific pink tape on my filter assembly and that solved my dripping issues.
2. I am fairly convinced the US step is NOT further reducing surface noise on records that I've already RCA cleaned. They definitely sound better after the US step, but they are not quieter.
3. I've noticed a couple of 180 gram records have warped on me. I am not sure if it's due to the 35C water temp or if the warps were there to start with. I'm now keeping a close eye on it.

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Audio: VPI Classic 3 w/Sumiko Pearwood Celebration MkII -> ARC PH6 -> ARC Ref2 MkII -> ARC VT100 MkIII -> Magico S1. Cables are Siltech 550/770.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:53 am 
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Location: Fairport Beach (in Pickering), ON, CA
toddc2 wrote:
...

3ea. 1/2" NPT x 3/8" barb connectors from OntarioBeerKegs.com
3ea. 3/8" NPT x 3/8" barb connectors from Home Depot
1ea. 3/8" female cap for sealing the drain end out of the filter when not in use

...



These items may also be found at Princess Auto, and auto part or tool supply shops. They are commonly used compressor line and fuel line fittings.

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Collecting vintage tube Pilot (Pilotone) HiFi gear.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:19 pm 
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Location: Oakville, ON, CA
toddc2 wrote:
Just a quick update on the ultrasonic cleaner after cleaning about 50 records:

1. I changed the white Teflon tape to the water-joint specific pink tape on my filter assembly and that solved my dripping issues.
2. I am fairly convinced the US step is NOT further reducing surface noise on records that I've already RCA cleaned. They definitely sound better after the US step, but they are not quieter.
3. I've noticed a couple of 180 gram records have warped on me. I am not sure if it's due to the 35C water temp or if the warps were there to start with. I'm now keeping a close eye on it.


I think that you are spot on. The ultrasonic and my vacuum RCM do an equal job in my opinion but the ultrasonic clean plus vacuum rinse is what I have settled on since it is less labour intensive than vacuum clean and rinse.

I am also not overly picky on how clean my ultrasonic sonic solution is. I just occasionally empty the tank by putting a piece of nylon stocking (folded over a few times) over the spigot. I have thoughts about a filter pump but not sure it will help much. The cavitation action of the ultrasonic bath should keep sediment from making its way into the grooves while still dislodging particles in the grooves.

But to reiterate, ultrasonic is not the holy grail of record cleaning. Some people say it is, but at least for me, I am not hearing it.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:12 am 
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Location: Waterloo, ON, CA
Tangram wrote:
But to reiterate, ultrasonic is not the holy grail of record cleaning. Some people say it is, but at least for me, I am not hearing it.


I tried a little different approach over the weekend on my Ultrasonic ritual with better results. I had been doing a triple distilled water rinse, scrubbing each rinse into the grooves with a clean "rinse only" MoFi brush. Over the weekend I simply saturated the freshly US cleaned record with distilled water and vacuumed dry. It saved a ton of time and I had better (quieter) results.

I'm also playing around with water temperature (lowering it) and increasing cleaning cycle times from 15 to 25 minutes. I'm not sure the extended time is improving anything, but it just so happens to be about the amount of time it takes to listen to a side of vinyl, so I plop some records in the US tank and listen to something recently cleaned. That's working really well for me...

Todd

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Audio: VPI Classic 3 w/Sumiko Pearwood Celebration MkII -> ARC PH6 -> ARC Ref2 MkII -> ARC VT100 MkIII -> Magico S1. Cables are Siltech 550/770.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:48 pm 
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Location: Calgary, AB, CA
I had the opportunity to use a KL Audio ultrasonic cleaner for the last few weeks, courtesy of a generous local CAM member (thanks Paul!). The KL Audio uses distilled water only, and it dries the record with forced air once the cleaning cycle is complete. The unit is completely automatic, so it's as easy as making toast.

I've been cleaning my records for years with a Opera Consonance (also sold under other brands including Hanss Acoustics), and have been very happy with it. Previously I owned the VPI HW-16.5 and a Clearaudio branded Okki Nokki, and I felt that the Opera was a superior design. I've experimented with different brushes, and have always used the standard 25% isopropanol / 75% distilled water / 2 drops Photoflow recipe. For really dirty records I use a diluted commercial enzyme cleaner, or sometimes a steam cleaner as a first wash stage.

I consistently found that the KL Audio brought a new level of resolution out of my records. Another local CAM member brought over some problem records that were previously washed on other systems (VPI, Loricraft), to see if the KL could improve them. While the KL Audio didn't make the noisy records silent again, it did seem to improve them. I did have some particularly dirty garage sale finds which the KL Audio couldn't completely clean on it's own. The problem records usually had old fluids dried on them, very oily finger prints, or sticky material on them; these ones needed a cycle on the Opera machine with cleaning fluids and brushing before returning for an ultrasonic dip. For most records however, one pass on the KL Audio is all that is required, so I think it's really the ultimate record cleaning solution. Sadly at $4800 USD retail I'm going to be saving for a while before I can afford one.

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