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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:52 am 
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Just curious Tangram.
You mention DIY ultrasonics.
What exactly are you using for this?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:23 am 
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Has anyone found a Canadian source for the quat in this solution formula? The US based guys are using Hepastat 256 but I can't find anything like that here.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:32 pm 
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For Denatured Alcohol I use Bio Flame.
Dilute with distilled water.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:19 pm 
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Dukerbud88 wrote:
tmarx wrote:
I mix 3L 99.9999% pure MG Chemicals Isopropyl, 1L distilled water in a jug, and add a drop of Kodak Photo Flo.

I have heard of this Kodak Photo Flo as well. What does it do?? Does it act like the dish soap sort of?


It is what is known as a 'surfactant', it is designed to make water wetter, ie flow better. Basically, with this addition...water cannot bead, it begins to wick and spread and creep, like some oils do.

For record cleaning solutions, it is a critical addition.

I have access to 55 gallon drums of surfactants, probably two-three types. I'd have to go and see Steve (Tri-Art)(they are the makers of Goo Systems products, which I'm still involved with). All we know, is you don't need very much, it is fairly concentrated stuff.

It is used in the coatings industry to help coatings materials actually blend and disperse properly, as they generally won't do it on their own, due to everything having a non-neutral pH.

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Last edited by Teo Audio on Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:25 pm 
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Audio Intelligent solutions offer excellent results. I use #15 cleaning fluid plus their ultra pure water.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:02 pm 
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80/20 dH2O/ 97% isopropanol

A few drops Kodak Photoflow 200


I also do a second rinse with distilled water.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:30 pm 
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Teo Audio wrote:
Dukerbud88 wrote:
tmarx wrote:
I mix 3L 99.9999% pure MG Chemicals Isopropyl, 1L distilled water in a jug, and add a drop of Kodak Photo Flo.

I have heard of this Kodak Photo Flo as well. What does it do?? Does it act like the dish soap sort of?


It is what is known as a 'surfactant', it is designed to make water wetter, ie flow better. Basically, with this addition...water cannot bead, it begins to wick and spread and creep, like some oils do.

For record cleaning solutions, it is a critical addition.

I have access to 55 gallon drums of surfactants, probably two-three types. I'd have to go and see Steve (Tri-Art)(they are the makers of Goo Systems products, which I'm still involved with). All we know, is you don't need very much, it is fairly concentrated stuff.

It is used in the coatings industry to help coatings materials actually blend and disperse properly, as they generally won't do it on their own, due to everything having a non-neutral pH.


A 55 gallon drum would satisfy the needs of all vinyl cleaners in Canada.
Just saying.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:10 am 
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toddc2 wrote:
Has anyone found a Canadian source for the quat in this solution formula? The US based guys are using Hepastat 256 but I can't find anything like that here.


To answer my own question, I did not find a Canadian source that would sell these cleaning solutions to me without a note from my mom, so I shipped these in from the US:

The quat is Behentrimonium Chloride:

http://www.makingcosmetics.com/Behentrimonium_p_81.html

The detergent is Triton X-100:

http://talasonline.com/Triton-X-100

The shipping from Talas was ridiculously expensive, but at least I was able to get access to it. I guess it's a small cost in the long run for something that should be best in class for cleaning records.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:01 pm 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
toddc2 wrote:
toddc2 wrote:
Has anyone found a Canadian source for the quat in this solution formula? The US based guys are using Hepastat 256 but I can't find anything like that here.


To answer my own question, I did not find a Canadian source that would sell these cleaning solutions to me without a note from my mom, so I shipped these in from the US:

The quat is Behentrimonium Chloride:

http://www.makingcosmetics.com/Behentrimonium_p_81.html

The detergent is Triton X-100:

http://talasonline.com/Triton-X-100

The shipping from Talas was ridiculously expensive, but at least I was able to get access to it. I guess it's a small cost in the long run for something that should be best in class for cleaning records.


Re Triton X-100 what you bought will probably last you forever, but in case it doesn't and for anyone else, I managed to get mine from Amazon.ca Sometimes it'll be unavailable but keep looking as they usually become available again. I paid about $30 for 100ml.

Do post your findings though as I'd be interested to hear other peoples experience with this solution.

I've been testing a solution with Triton X-100 and so far I find it to be no better than a lot of stuff I've already tried. I haven't added any Behentrimonium though so maybe that would make a difference.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:52 pm 
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eddiel wrote:
toddc2 wrote:
toddc2 wrote:
Has anyone found a Canadian source for the quat in this solution formula? The US based guys are using Hepastat 256 but I can't find anything like that here.


To answer my own question, I did not find a Canadian source that would sell these cleaning solutions to me without a note from my mom, so I shipped these in from the US:

The quat is Behentrimonium Chloride:

http://www.makingcosmetics.com/Behentrimonium_p_81.html

The detergent is Triton X-100:

http://talasonline.com/Triton-X-100

The shipping from Talas was ridiculously expensive, but at least I was able to get access to it. I guess it's a small cost in the long run for something that should be best in class for cleaning records.


Re Triton X-100 what you bought will probably last you forever, but in case it doesn't and for anyone else, I managed to get mine from Amazon.ca Sometimes it'll be unavailable but keep looking as they usually become available again. I paid about $30 for 100ml.

Do post your findings though as I'd be interested to hear other peoples experience with this solution.

I've been testing a solution with Triton X-100 and so far I find it to be no better than a lot of stuff I've already tried. I haven't added any Behentrimonium though so maybe that would make a difference.


Thanks, that $30 for 100ml is a good reference point. I paid $18.75 USD for a pint, but the shipping costs via USPS were a whopping $50USD. That works out to about $87.50 CAD for 473 ml delivered. And you are right, that should be a life time supply although I will be using it in a 10L ultrasonic tank at about 0.1% dilution (10ml per tank).

I'll let you know how it goes!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:13 pm 
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toddc2 wrote:
Thanks, that $30 for 100ml is a good reference point. I paid $18.75 USD for a pint, but the shipping costs via USPS were a whopping $50USD. That works out to about $87.50 CAD for 473 ml delivered. And you are right, that should be a life time supply although I will be using it in a 10L ultrasonic tank at about 0.1% dilution (10ml per tank).

I'll let you know how it goes!


Ah you're using it in an Ultrasonic tank. I'm actually putting together a DIY version so definitely interested to hear how the solution works for you in the Ultrasonic. I hadn't decided what to add to my distilled water yet. (Some of my supplies for the set up are stuck in customs and they do not appear to be in any hurray to process them either!)

With a 10L tank would you have to mix an initial solution first or could you just add 10ml straight to to the 10L?

In the Audiokarma discussion they say to make an initial mix in distilled water and add that to the final solution. But they were talking about a typical 100ml batch for a vacuum based RCM and not an ultrasonic tank.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:29 pm 
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eddiel wrote:
toddc2 wrote:
Thanks, that $30 for 100ml is a good reference point. I paid $18.75 USD for a pint, but the shipping costs via USPS were a whopping $50USD. That works out to about $87.50 CAD for 473 ml delivered. And you are right, that should be a life time supply although I will be using it in a 10L ultrasonic tank at about 0.1% dilution (10ml per tank).

I'll let you know how it goes!


Ah you're using it in an Ultrasonic tank. I'm actually putting together a DIY version so definitely interested to hear how the solution works for you in the Ultrasonic. I hadn't decided what to add to my distilled water yet. (Some of my supplies for the set up are stuck in customs and they do not appear to be in any hurray to process them either!)

With a 10L tank would you have to mix an initial solution first or could you just add 10ml straight to to the 10L?

In the Audiokarma discussion they say to make an initial mix in distilled water and add that to the final solution. But they were talking about a typical 100ml batch for a vacuum based RCM and not an ultrasonic tank.


I am going to skip the pre-mix and try this:

10 ml of Triton dissolved in 250ml IPA
The other 250ml of IPA tossed in the tank
2.5 grams of Behen dissolved in about 100ml of HOT distillled water
Balance of tank filled with distilled water

Assuming a 10L tank (maybe it's slightly less?):

5% IPA (500ml in 10L solution)
0.1% Triton (10ml in 10L solution)
0.02% quat (Behen is about 80% quat)
Remainder 94.9% distilled water

That's loosely based on Rushton's formula but substitutes Behen for Hepastat 256 in roughly the same quat concentration. Rushton uses a little less IPA but I'm just going to use the whole 500ml bottle per batch because it's easier to measure. Should be close enough.

Todd

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:16 pm 
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toddc2 wrote:
eddiel wrote:
toddc2 wrote:
Thanks, that $30 for 100ml is a good reference point. I paid $18.75 USD for a pint, but the shipping costs via USPS were a whopping $50USD. That works out to about $87.50 CAD for 473 ml delivered. And you are right, that should be a life time supply although I will be using it in a 10L ultrasonic tank at about 0.1% dilution (10ml per tank).

I'll let you know how it goes!


Ah you're using it in an Ultrasonic tank. I'm actually putting together a DIY version so definitely interested to hear how the solution works for you in the Ultrasonic. I hadn't decided what to add to my distilled water yet. (Some of my supplies for the set up are stuck in customs and they do not appear to be in any hurray to process them either!)

With a 10L tank would you have to mix an initial solution first or could you just add 10ml straight to to the 10L?

In the Audiokarma discussion they say to make an initial mix in distilled water and add that to the final solution. But they were talking about a typical 100ml batch for a vacuum based RCM and not an ultrasonic tank.


I am going to skip the pre-mix and try this:

10 ml of Triton dissolved in 250ml IPA
The other 250ml of IPA tossed in the tank
2.5 grams of Behen dissolved in about 100ml of HOT distillled water
Balance of tank filled with distilled water

Assuming a 10L tank (maybe it's slightly less?):

5% IPA (500ml in 10L solution)
0.1% Triton (10ml in 10L solution)
0.02% quat (Behen is about 80% quat)
Remainder 94.9% distilled water

That's loosely based on Rushton's formula but substitutes Behen for Hepastat 256 in roughly the same quat concentration. Rushton uses a little less IPA but I'm just going to use the whole 500ml bottle per batch because it's easier to measure. Should be close enough.

Todd


I might try that formula with my ClearAudio RCM. Triton on it's own works but it doesn't appear to be any better than my L'Art Du Son or AIVS.

Definitely report back on your findings


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:31 am 
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I use a lab grade detergent specially formulated for plastics, or so they say. Thing about lab stuff is that it has to work, or a lot of very smart people get upset and market share vanishes.

I've used VersaClean by Fisher Scientific for both VPI and ultrasonic machines. No alcohols, no FotoFlo. But lots and lots of rinsing.

The Rushton thread is a good intro to DIY ultrasonic. See also the thread on DIY Audio.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:12 am 
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Sources for isopropanol at low prices had started to dry up. (j/k!) Fresh Co. grocery stores carry 500mL bottles in the pharmacy section, they dry clean and residue free. This is indicative of the stuff being made the way the name indicates, which is as a propane distillate. Which will generally be 99.99+ in quality, even if the label only says 99%. In the same way that the O2 tanks for cutting torches get their fill from the same truck that fills the medical canisters of O2. Same-same. Shoppers drug mart had stopped selling 99% isopropanol, but seem to have recently brought it back into the stores. It is labeled properly, not as a 'isopropyl' which is a name reserved for the 50% and 70% mixes..but as a 'isopropanol', which they seem to reserve for the high purity +99% varieties.

Again, due to the distillation method, it is nearly impossible to have the purity drop below 99.99% on an isopropanol. So, no need to spend the big bucks for MG chemicals varieties, or industrial sources with impressive purity numbers and prices on the container. Like the cutting vs medical O2, they both come from the same methodology and distillation techniques. Try the fresh co and shoppers varieties and you will probably be well satisfied at less than half the prices of the 'pro' stuff, and have widespread immediate access.

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