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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:27 am 
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Posts: 232
Location: Saskatoon, SK, CA
boring...
please stop now.
commence heavy consumption of ontarios sapphire bombay
until affected synaptic activity is quashed.

as for pisspals dispute resolution... my experience was polite and functionally useless,
actually far far worse than useless... misleading, frustrating and time-consuming,
seller beware...there are sound reasons why more of us state no pp.

the misdirection is the killer... it was crafted with skill and deliberation.
actions did not represent words.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:48 am 
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Location: Kingston, ON, CA
August wrote:
boring...
please stop now.
commence heavy consumption of ontarios sapphire bombay
until affected synaptic activity is quashed.

as for pisspals dispute resolution... my experience was polite and functionally useless,
actually far far worse than useless... misleading, frustrating and time-consuming,
seller beware...there are sound reasons why more of us state no pp.

the misdirection is the killer... it was crafted with skill and deliberation.
actions did not represent words.



I agree that paypal is the worst when it comes to resolution for the seller.

This may be due to their 'protection' , actually being based on the Credit Card companies buyer protection... and paypal actually providing NOTHING that is not already there. Meaning, it is completely out of their hands. Period.

So their use of the words 'protection', is meaningless as they don't actually provide ANYTHING.

This protection is built into the original credit card contract between the person issued the card and the card issuer.. and it is undefeatable and unstoppable. Paypal cannot do SQUAT in the face of that.

It's a bug for paypal, so they twisted it around and called it a feature.

Be aware of this.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:51 am 
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Location: London, ON, CA
Well there is an old saying if it ain't broke don't fix it.

My initial reaction is kind of that. I find the way CAM has done business for years now works very well.
I have purchased several items from fellow CAM members and the system has worked well for me. In general I find CAMers a nicer lot to do business with than many others.

Having said that I understand the desire to keep up-to-date and provide all sorts of features and options for the members. So I'm certainly not against CAM trying this, as has been stated already, it is optional after all.

I fear some of the motivation for people to use the auction style is simple greed, I hope that is not the case but...time will tell.

One thing people need to consider when using this option, you will likely be limiting your potential customer base. There are likely a lot of CAM users who like the personal touch, the communications the negotiations and so on. Using the auction option will likely immediately eliminate several CAM users right off the bat.

:D :D ROVA :D :D


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:59 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:09 pm
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Location: Sherbrooke, QC, CA
Simple is beautiful. The mess proposed is audiogonesque. Sad.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 9:02 am 
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I really don't see what all the fuss is about?

As a seller, will I use the auction feature? Doubtful, since I research prices before listing my gear which I believe to be at fair market value. Flippers may be tempted? And as a buyer? Definitely... maybe.

If 90% of all ads switch overnight to auctions then we might have a problem, but until then, I'm keeping an open mind.

YMMV.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 9:17 am 
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I'm not sure why all the animosity towards auctions and the buy it now feature. Auctions in general are widely used to sell all kinds of things...the buy it now is a quick way to meet the seller's reserve. These new options, it would seem to me, would be a way to avoid the deadbeats and tire kickers that many sellers on CAM constantly bemoan.

The option to carry on traditionally is still there for those who prefer the more intimate nature of the deal. Perhaps an either/or arrangement to the options would avoid any conflict of interest between the two systems.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 9:26 am 
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Location: Markham, ON, CA
Fat say wheres the auction action please?? in need of exercising his fingers standing.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 10:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:37 am
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Location: Quebec, QC, CA
I don't mind the auctions part, it may fill a need with some.

However, I don't see the added benefit of a " Buy Now" feature, which is pretty much the same as "ok I'll take it at your asking price" email.

In both a Buy it now or traditional buying scenario, the buyer still needs to qualify both product condition and the credibility of the seller, be it by email or phone.

With a Buy Now feature, there are additional (although minimal) costs, a forced single option for payment, etc.

If, for example, there was a added benefit to the Buy Now feature such as a possible refund of purchase in the 7 days following reception of the gear, or whatever, then it might be interesting. Other than that, a prefer the old-fashion way of dealing directly with the seller, right up to the final " great, I'll take it ! ''. 8)


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 11:50 am 
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There are many questions, so I hope to answer as many as possible:

cdn_borne wrote:
D. Put a time down counter in the ad so people can see how close it is to the auction / listing
ending.


If an auction ever gets posted you'll see there is a real time counter once the clock is under 24hrs. Participants of auctions also get instant notifications on the site as well as email during various key stages (such as Reserve being met, bids being beaten, auctions ending soon, etc). We may have to invite one or two interested parties to test an auction free of charge in order for members to get a feel, but at the moment its not possible for us to do this and costly to add such an ability.


cdn_borne wrote:

Questions I have,
A. how will disputes be handled ? Since CAM will be collecting a small listing fee and a 2% sold fee,
does that not make CAM partially partially responsible for buyer and seller satisfaction ? or will
that only be between buyer and seller and PayPal?


Disputes will take place through Paypal but there is always the Feedback system on CAM as well. I know some members have shared their Paypal horror stories, but I can only go based on my experience (our combined experience is probably 4000 Paypal sales transactions per year across various projects). In my experience if you are selling physical goods you are protected under what Paypal calls the Seller Protection. I understand some reputable sellers have indicated this did them no good, but on at least 2 occasions in the past 6 months Paypal has sided with us as the Seller on a dispute where we showed proper documentation. To counter balance that, digital goods are not well protected for sellers. We have been charged 9 chargeback fees in the past 3 months by Paypal plus the loss of the sales value (each chargeback is $20USD on top of the loss of the sale). There are many sites that cover the cons of Paypal, but on CAM we consider it generally a good thing, and while 9 chargebacks hurts, the pros outweigh the cons for us. At the very least Paypal is no worse than Credit Card, which doesn't even have a dispute resolution process, as a seller accepting Credit Card you lose the moment someone makes a claim (although other sellers may be able to refute this, that's the experience we've had anyway).

cdn_borne wrote:


B. Will the number of ads a free member can list, depend on the type ? IE: Auction, buy it now,
best offer unlimited and standard ads would have the same cap as they do now?


Currently Auctions are its own thing separate from Classifieds. If you make 8 auctions it won't count towards your Free classifieds limits.

milag wrote:
Other than that, a prefer the old-fashion way of dealing directly with the seller, right up to the final " great, I'll take it ! ''. 8)


Great feedback, thank you. The good news (in case you weren't aware) is that as a seller you can choose not to enable Buy It Now (it's not enabled by default), and as a buyer you can ignore Buy It Now and just Reply to ad. Ads that have Buy It Now always have the option of good old fashioned Reply and communication, and sellers can still list their phone numbers, emails, or any other contact info right in the ad if they so wish.


mike k. wrote:
Is there a " No Shipping " option in the Auction and/or Buy It Now postings? As I prefer to deal face to face.


In both Auction and Buy It Now you have to explicitly turn on Shipping. If you leave it off you have to select Pickup. By leaving Shipping unchecked and Pickup checked it results in a "Pickup Only" style Auction or Buy It Now. Note that Pickup requires you to add a Pickup location.

Philosophil wrote:
In addition to a "No Shipping" option is there a clear option to limit shipping destinations, e.g. Canada only?

Also if one wanted to limit sales to 'Canada only' or 'CAM members only' is there a way to prevent people who don't meet those criteria from winning an Auction or pressing the Buy Now button?


When you enable Shipping in Auctions or Buy It Now, you can select whether you will ship to Canada, USA, UK, Australia, or Worldwide. You can ship to none, one, or any combination of those destinations.

Only CAM members can bid in Auctions or use Buy It Now to buy. This is not optional at this time. I think we will have to add a refund option in situations where someone somehow buys even if the ad does not allow shipping to their destination.

mantisory wrote:
Anyway, my questions is, is there a way to see active auctions only, rather than just classifieds? I thought I read through this whole thread but can't seem to see any mention of how auction items will be listed.


Auctions will be listed on the homepage, in Browse All Ads, in search results, in a special Auctions tab on the homepage, and also on a special Auctions page. Its easier to show once (or if) an auction is placed.


Quadzilla wrote:
I agree OBI, but why not just charge $2 for each classified ad and forget all about this? That would likely generate more revenue, it would deter a lot of the scammers, and it would make things much simpler for everyone.


It's my personal desire to keep the site Free for hobbyist users using the main Classifieds. I feel changing this one aspect of the site changes the character of what we're doing too much, and uh... its not something I have confidence in executing properly.

davinci_redux wrote:
If it works, then Kudos to admin; if not then Kudos to admin too! I know that I wouldn't offer it without a lot of analysis, including an intensive and extensive look at some of the more abstract variables.


As with any site, CAM faces a lot of challenges each year including increasing costs of operation (we send out 400,000 emails a month and growing, and our hosting costs grow 5-10% per year for example) and a need to diversify what allows us to operate (relying 90% on advertising is risky). Some of our upstream providers (webhost, email providers, tech services providers) have signaled to us last year that costs will increase every year for the future. We feel Buy It Now and Auctions will be a small set of usage (and Buy It Now will be more popular than auctions) that will net offset some of the increased costs. It remains to be seen whether it creates other costs that make it unviable, but at least it will be fun to try out :).


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 12:33 pm 
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Why not start a test auction or two, this way everyone interested can see how things are run.

Regards
Ohms

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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 9:57 pm 
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OK, I know it compares to "other auction sites" but it could result in more transactions as you pretty much have to sh*t or get off the pot, as the saying goes, if there's any buying and selling to be had. Otherwise just stick with what you did before.


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 4:36 am 
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Location: Toronto
If I were to list something for auction where would I list it? CAM, eBay or Audiogon? I don't think it would be CAM only because I don't think the site has the traffic the other two sites have. Of course this would depend on the item. I might auction less valuable items on CAM to avoid the extra hassle of international selling.


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 6:08 am 
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viiu wrote:
If I were to list something for auction where would I list it? CAM, eBay or Audiogon? I don't think it would be CAM only because I don't think the site has the traffic the other two sites have. Of course this would depend on the item. I might auction less valuable items on CAM to avoid the extra hassle of international selling.


That 'traffic' can work against you. Listing on eBay is just not worth the effort. It used to be good, but now it is dominated by Chinese 'Power Sellers' (with thousands of feedbacks, and hundreds of negatives). Ten years ago, a search might yield dozens or hundreds of results. Today, the same search might yield thousands or tens of thousands, and individual ads just get lost in the crowd.

Just for grins, I listed a few SACDs for sale on eBay a few weeks ago. My starting bid was ten bucks ... for 3 decent SACD titles. I didn't get one bid, not even ten bucks ... but I did learn not to bother trying to sell anything on eBay again. I ended up selling all of them in the Audio Asylum classifieds for a lot more than ten bucks. You have to love the US$ exchange rate at the moment ... if you are selling.

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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 6:39 am 
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Just listed a Santana - Abraxas MOFI UltraDisc One-Step 2LP 45 RPM Box Set on the Auction site.

Seems silly to me to have to provide 3 images in order to list a record.

I simply used the same image 3 times. 8)

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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 7:01 am 
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Perhaps I'm missing something, but shouldn't I be able to filter the auctions only so I can see them all?


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