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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:23 am 
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Location: London, ON, CA
srock_00 wrote:
In cd and vinyl section every day we have 10 dealers who releasing 50 ads.So if I released 1 LP for sale in 2 days my ad in page 4. No one check ads that far. :roll:


That kind of behavior needs to be stopped as it tends to inhibit casual sellers from posting and shoppers from browsing. Just go to any Kijii site under audio and there are people who re-post the same ads every day. You eventually give up on the site as it is too much work wading through the same ads over and over.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:31 am 
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Location: Richmond Hill, ON, CA
Don't compare amount of ads on Kijiji and CAM. The free ads must separated from the dealers. From the marketing perspective this is a wrong philosophy. ......"The more people go true the ads the more they buy"......David Rockefeller. :P


Last edited by srock_00 on Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:36 am 
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srock_00 wrote:
Don't compare amount of ads on Kijiji and CAM. The free ads must separated from the dealers.


The dealers and flippers would never allow that. They pay to have their ads here, and they would never to along with anything that would allow members to avoid seeing their ads. I hate that there are so many dealer ads, especially hundreds of individual LPs ... but they do pay for the site so it can be free for the rest of us.

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1978 Rickenbacker 4001, 2010 Gibson Thunderbird, and Dean Fretless Basses;
1987 Guild Nightbird, 2000 Taylor 310KCE, and Godin 5th Avenue Guitars.

If you can use one of those newfangled Internets, you can post photos in your damn classified ads. :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:50 am 
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brf wrote:
I like the change. A few questions:

1) Is it based on a calendar year?
2) Is the new system back dated to Jan 1, 2016
3) Will a "current year" total be displays? (other than in interesting stat, I don't see how having last year's total will help user's manage their current in-year usage


The yearly limit is based on the past 12 months of activity. It is a rolling period of 12 months. If someone were to post 8 classifieds a month for 8 months starting on May 1st 2015 and ending up hitting 60 total posts on Dec 31st 2015, they will have no more free posts until May 1st 2016.

The monthly limit is based on Calendar month.

Quadzilla wrote:
The dealers and flippers would never allow that. They pay to have their ads here, and they would never to along with anything that would allow members to avoid seeing their ads. I hate that there are so many dealer ads, especially hundreds of individual LPs ... but they do pay for the site so it can be free for the rest of us.


I think there's some unfortunate choice of words here. Dealers rarely (if ever) comment to me whether their ads are more or less visible than free ads and no dealer has ever pressured or "allowed" or "not allowed" how we handle free vs dealer ads. The only pressure we get from dealers is on the definition of what is allowed to be posted on classifieds, which must be items of significant discount from retail or every day prices, and in the case of LPs, our requirement to list one item per classified. In reality, free users exert more pressure regarding ad visibility, and the ratio is easily 10x more pressure about free ads than about paid.

My primary interest in policy design is to create a healthy marketplace for all users, and where users who make heavy use of the site, earn a living, or otherwise benefit more than other users contribute financially so we can continue to maintain and improve the site for all users. There's no such thing as "so and so would never allow that" as we make decisions for the greater good and long term vision.


srock_00 wrote:
I think if you don't want us to "bump" classifieds by turning them off and posting new ones make a 2 separate columns. One for free users and one for dealers. In cd and vinyl section every day we have 10 dealers who releasing 50 ads.So if I released 1 LP for sale in 2 days my ad in page 4. No one check ads that far. :roll:


Sorry if my tips sounded like some hint to stop bumping. While our official stance is that users should only bump an ad through a relist, we don't have a hard and fast rule about turning off an ad and relisting. Moderators do reach out to users who try to "relist" an ad every few days, and we internally hope users don't do this. However, your tradeoff now is that it will use more of your free quota. This is a natural and intentional consequence of free user limits. A free user may make maximum use of their quotas by listing reasonable prices and posting high quality ads. In theory a person could sell 60 items a year free of charge on CAM if they had desirable items that were priced well. Another person could be relisting 3 items twice a month each and hit the same limits. My tips were merely to help users try to balance a desire to sell with the desire to turn off and relist ads for "bumping" purposes, and the fact is that good items priced well will sell quickly and with few or no "bumps", while undesirable or overpriced items (or items with restrictions like local pickup at remote locations, lack of information, bad descriptions) will be hard to sell even with repeated bumps.

Anyway, regarding the software issue, we do have a plan and work in place to help separate software from hardware.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:58 am 
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1) I think all references to "reasonable" pricing should be struck from the discussion. That is way too subjective, as there are many low-balling people here who think that anything more than 25% of Retail is gouging/over-pricing; there have been long threads with people arguing about this. :roll: A seller should be able to list their item for whatever they want. If you think it's too much, don't buy it.
2) If this policy stops people putting up individual ads for every single LP or CD they are trying to sell, I think that's great. They are just plugging-up the system. There's no reason why they can't make a list of the LPs and sell them in one ad.
3) Hey. Knock yourself-out and blow your limit early. Just remember to DELETE the OLD ad that you just duplicated!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:10 pm 
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AVguy wrote:
2) If this policy stops people putting up individual ads for every single LP or CD they are trying to sell, I think that's great. They are just plugging-up the system. There's no reason why they can't make a list of the LPs and sell them in one ad.


Sorry, it is strictly against the rules to list more than one software per ad unless you sell it as an entire whole. Users who post 50 single listings of 50 LPs per day are following the rules and should continue doing so. We will try to address the perception of software flooding via other means which we already have in the works.

Quote:
1) I think all references to "reasonable" pricing should be struck from the discussion. That is way too subjective, as there are many low-balling people here who think that anything more than 25% of Retail is gouging/over-pricing; there have been long threads with people arguing about this. :roll: A seller should be able to list their item for whatever they want. If you think it's too much, don't buy it.


Sellers can certainly list at whatever prices they want but there is a natural market rate for each item and my hope for CAM is that items are listed near that rate. By "reasonable" price I would think that to be market value. This is also why our long term intent is to more accurately capture sale prices so we can create a Bluebook. What I desire in the marketplace is that items are listed and sold at their market value of that time. Such value also fluctuates depending on supply and demand, if at that moment nobody is interested in that price then it takes longer to sell. IMO the marketplace should be able to help sellers determine what that price is. It also sets expectations properly so that we hopefully have fewer overpriced listings and a reduction in bumps for items that can't sell due to price.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:29 pm 
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admin wrote:
Quadzilla wrote:
The dealers and flippers would never allow that. They pay to have their ads here, and they would never to along with anything that would allow members to avoid seeing their ads. I hate that there are so many dealer ads, especially hundreds of individual LPs ... but they do pay for the site so it can be free for the rest of us.


I think there's some unfortunate choice of words here. Dealers rarely (if ever) comment to me whether their ads are more or less visible than free ads and no dealer has ever pressured or "allowed" or "not allowed" how we handle free vs dealer ads. The only pressure we get from dealers is on the definition of what is allowed to be posted on classifieds, which must be items of significant discount from retail or every day prices, and in the case of LPs, our requirement to list one item per classified. In reality, free users exert more pressure regarding ad visibility, and the ratio is easily 10x more pressure about free ads than about paid.


My point was that IF you put a system in place that would allow users to filter out dealer ads (as a previous poster suggested) that you would receive push-back from dealers ... NOT that dealers are currently complaining.

_________________
1978 Rickenbacker 4001, 2010 Gibson Thunderbird, and Dean Fretless Basses;
1987 Guild Nightbird, 2000 Taylor 310KCE, and Godin 5th Avenue Guitars.

If you can use one of those newfangled Internets, you can post photos in your damn classified ads. :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:44 pm 
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admin wrote:
AVguy wrote:
2) If this policy stops people putting up individual ads for every single LP or CD they are trying to sell, I think that's great. They are just plugging-up the system. There's no reason why they can't make a list of the LPs and sell them in one ad.


Sorry, it is strictly against the rules to list more than one software per ad unless you sell it as an entire whole. Users who post 50 single listings of 50 LPs per day are following the rules and should continue doing so. We will try to address the perception of software flooding via other means which we already have in the works.

Quote:
1) I think all references to "reasonable" pricing should be struck from the discussion. That is way too subjective, as there are many low-balling people here who think that anything more than 25% of Retail is gouging/over-pricing; there have been long threads with people arguing about this. :roll: A seller should be able to list their item for whatever they want. If you think it's too much, don't buy it.


Sellers can certainly list at whatever prices they want but there is a natural market rate for each item and my hope for CAM is that items are listed near that rate. By "reasonable" price I would think that to be market value. This is also why our long term intent is to more accurately capture sale prices so we can create a Bluebook. What I desire in the marketplace is that items are listed and sold at their market value of that time. Such value also fluctuates depending on supply and demand, if at that moment nobody is interested in that price then it takes longer to sell. IMO the marketplace should be able to help sellers determine what that price is. It also sets expectations properly so that we hopefully have fewer overpriced listings and a reduction in bumps for items that can't sell due to price.


Well, I do not agree with the one ad for one LP requirement, as it does plug-up the system and takes a lot of space. And you are not tracking the sales prices for individual LPs are you?
A friend of mine died in June and I an helping his wife sell hos whole syste. He also has atleast 2,500 LPs that I am in the process of cataloguing. I am certainly not going to post 2,500 ads am I? NO. I will post one ad describing the collection in general terms and offer to send a spreadsheet for each individual genre to interested prospective buyers. Is that against the rules?

I for one don't care about your Bluebook effort. A Bluebook is only as accurate as the info being entered, and there are a lot of people who WILL NOT tell you what they really sold an item-for. Some (correctly) believe that it's no one else's business (as has been discussed around here many times). If they did give someone a big reduction, they are not going to tell you that; they will mark the sale price at the asking price. They may want to sell the same item in the future and they don't want prospective buyers looking at a Bluebook price that is less and busting their ba*ls about it. Many people here delete the asking price in their 'Sold' ads for that very reason!

One ad for one item is also unfair to someone who is trying to sell a system (well, they can try! :lol: ) and since this IS NOT A PAY for Ad site and there are no commissions involved, it shouldn't make any difference to CAM Admin what a person puts in their ads as long as they are related to each other. If we want overly-intrusive, controlling, greedy controllers we can go to Audiogon


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:54 pm 
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AVguy you raise some great discussion points that should go into the Suggestions & Feedback forum, I'm setting a bad example by going off topic on this thread. I discuss your part about accuracy of prices from users here.

On topic:

Another member PM'd me to ask how a Premium+ Power user can be unlimited if there's a 10 post per day limit. The answer is that there's no yearly or monthly limits, but the daily limit does put a total limit on the number posted. Realistically if you are nearing those numbers there's something wrong anyway.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:20 pm 
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Location: ETOBICOKE, ON, CA
if the rules just changed this week shouldn't everyone start with a clean slate instead of using last years data to determine your standing now?
eg. if you did a lot of listing in jan-march 2015 and not many since your activity has changed but you are being measured by your activity almost a year ago.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:45 pm 
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j canuck wrote:
if the rules just changed this week shouldn't everyone start with a clean slate instead of using last years data to determine your standing now?
eg. if you did a lot of listing in jan-march 2015 and not many since your activity has changed but you are being measured by your activity almost a year ago.


Hi j canuck, we're trying to execute the change now that will trim down all people who have exceeded 60 posts to 40 posts. Once that occurs you will be able to post again.

However, since the rule has been around for over 5 years now that anyone posting more than 11 classifieds in a month is Premium User, we will not be starting with a clean slate. It's not all dire though, most users will be able to post unimpeded once we make the rollback of your account stats.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:19 am 
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Location: Whitby, ON, CA
It's about time CAM did this. There are dozens, no probably hundreds in truth, masquerading as hobbyists on the site who are in fact running businesses and using CAM for free advertising. I know, because I've caught several of them red-handed over the years. I only reported one, though. But to no avail, because CAM doesn't like to bare its teeth when it should. The new user guidelines seem to have some teeth in them, at least.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:12 pm 
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Location: Kelowna, BC, CA
Oooooooh Canuck Audio Mart. You have learned the most important lesson: There is no improvement you can make, about which no one will complain.
It is the law. It is the law of progress.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:54 am 
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Location: Markham, ON, CA
Just want to add my heartfelt thank you to the CAM team.

It's the best site I've used and even with the change it's still way better than any other buying/selling sites and I've been on several (eBay, Kijiji, A'gon etc...). It's truly worth much more than it cost.

Thank you!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:10 am 
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chuttt wrote:
Just want to add my heartfelt thank you to the CAM team.

It's the best site I've used and even with the change it's still way better than any other buying/selling sites and I've been on several (eBay, Kijiji, A'gon etc...). It's truly worth much more than it cost.

Thank you!


+1.....

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