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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:25 am 
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I'm going to swim against the current because I think this is an unfortunate development. As someone who places a fair number of ads on CAM, and have a 100% positive rating (on Audiogon too), I feel I should have the right to craft my ad the way I want. I think there should be very few requirements of a want ad service. The Globe and Mail doesn't require photos and nor should CAM. Do I include photos with my ads? Most of the time I do because I believe it helps my ad. But that should be my decision. Right now one of my ads does not have photos (more out of laziness than anything political). So what? If you, the prospective buyer, do not like ads without photos it seems to me you have one of two options: 1) you can contact me and ask for pics, or 2) you can move on and find an ad with pics. The whole thing about fraud is a red herring. Pics do not prevent fraud at all, as someone commenting on eBay has stated. The one and only time I fell for a scam (pair of Stealth Indra) the ad had photos, 4 of them in fact! In this age of computer graphics and photoshop any one can add a phoney pic to an ad. That said, I'll probably add photos to my one ad that doesn't have them. But I still think it's a mistake to require them. It should be my decision based on the way I want to advertise/market the things I want to sell.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:42 am 
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EL34. I agree 100% with everything you said. It's free country. Let's keep it that way.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:57 am 
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viiu wrote:
EL34. I agree 100% with everything you said. It's free country. Let's keep it that way.


The "free country" argument only applies to public organizations, NOT private companies ... and even public entities have codes of conduct.

-- 09 Dec 2015 12:59 --

EL34 wrote:
I'm going to swim against the current because I think this is an unfortunate development. As someone who places a fair number of ads on CAM, and have a 100% positive rating (on Audiogon too), I feel I should have the right to craft my ad the way I want. I think there should be very few requirements of a want ad service. The Globe and Mail doesn't require photos and nor should CAM


The Globe and Mail might not require photos in ads, but AutoTrader does ... and that is a more relevant comparison to CAM because it is first and foremost a classifieds site ... NOT a newspaper.

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1978 Rickenbacker 4001, 2010 Gibson Thunderbird, and Dean Fretless Basses;
1987 Guild Nightbird, 2000 Taylor 310KCE, and Godin 5th Avenue Guitars.

If you can use one of those newfangled Internets, you can post photos in your damn classified ads. :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:10 am 
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"Canada's Hinterland"? I assume this refers to anyone not living in 'The Golden Triangle' in Southern Ontario? Seriously, this kind of childish, condescending remark is completely uncalled for. What are we going to see next? Tantrums? Hissy fits?

I believe the Administration summarized the current policy pretty clearly, including the qualification that they want to test the new policies before trying anything else. Give it a rest.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:16 am 
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Philosophil wrote:
"Canada's Hinterland"? I assume this refers to anyone not living in 'The Golden Triangle' in Southern Ontario? Seriously, this kind of childish, condescending remark is completely uncalled for. What are we going to see next? Tantrums? Hissy fits?

I believe the Administration summarized the current policy pretty clearly, including the qualification that they want to test the new policies before trying anything else. Give it a rest.


Where do you get the impression that I live in 'The Golden Triangle'?

I realize that you are supposed to be some sort of "teacher", but you are no authority-figure here.

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1978 Rickenbacker 4001, 2010 Gibson Thunderbird, and Dean Fretless Basses;
1987 Guild Nightbird, 2000 Taylor 310KCE, and Godin 5th Avenue Guitars.

If you can use one of those newfangled Internets, you can post photos in your damn classified ads. :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:24 am 
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admin wrote:
Please be aware that new members and members with little or no feedback on AudioMart will now be required to include 2 images with every classified listing.


Bravo!
Something had to be done; this measure is BIG step to ensuring legitimate advertising.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:06 am 
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It'll do nothing to legitimize an ad. There are any number of software packages that will allow the user to create phoney pictures so good that you won't be able to tell that they're phoney. If someone is intent on fraud, they will be able to comply easily enough with the photo rule. It could be argued that the rule only creates a false sense of security. I know, because I fell for it once already. I still think it is best to allow sellers the greatest amount of leeway to craft their ads the way they want to. If you want a photo and the ad you're interested in doesn't have one, write the seller and ask. Why is that such a difficult concept to understand?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:17 am 
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EL34 wrote:
It'll do nothing to legitimize an ad. There are any number of software packages that will allow the user to create phoney pictures so good that you won't be able to tell that they're phoney. If someone is intent on fraud, they will be able to comply easily enough with the photo rule. It could be argued that the rule only creates a false sense of security. I know, because I fell for it once already. I still think it is best to allow sellers the greatest amount of leeway to craft their ads the way they want to. If you want a photo and the ad you're interested in doesn't have one, write the seller and ask. Why is that such a difficult concept to understand?


The biggest objection to posting photos is that some members 'claim' that they don't have digital cameras and/or don't know how to use them. How is asking these members for photos going to work? If someone can SEND photos, why can't they just POST photos? "Why is that such a difficult concept to understand?"

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1978 Rickenbacker 4001, 2010 Gibson Thunderbird, and Dean Fretless Basses;
1987 Guild Nightbird, 2000 Taylor 310KCE, and Godin 5th Avenue Guitars.

If you can use one of those newfangled Internets, you can post photos in your damn classified ads. :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:54 pm 
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I've got no problem with a camera. I don't know about others, but I have one on my iPhone. None of my point pertain to the ownership of cameras or the knowledge of using them. So if it ain't broke don't fix it!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:30 pm 
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EL34 wrote:
I've got no problem with a camera. I don't know about others, but I have one on my iPhone. None of my point pertain to the ownership of cameras or the knowledge of using them. So if it ain't broke don't fix it!


I don't understand your objection then. If you are capable of taking a photo and sending it on request, what is wrong with just posting it in the ad in the first place?

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1978 Rickenbacker 4001, 2010 Gibson Thunderbird, and Dean Fretless Basses;
1987 Guild Nightbird, 2000 Taylor 310KCE, and Godin 5th Avenue Guitars.

If you can use one of those newfangled Internets, you can post photos in your damn classified ads. :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:49 pm 
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Location: Victoria, BC, CA
Personally, I value having great relations with my fellow CAM'ers and feel it is SO much easier for both parties when we can see each others positive references. For me, I can move ahead with transactions and sleep at night. The idea of adding at least two pic's is simple enough and I do that as a minimum. Why wouldn't I want to make it easier for the buyer and reduce the amount of questions needed. On top of that, I think I'll make up a small card with my CAM name and date joined and place it on or beside the equipment I'm selling to show that it's real and professional (even if it is a hobby).


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:37 pm
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Location: Cambridge, ON, CA
admin wrote:
Please be aware that new members and members with little or no feedback on AudioMart will now be required to include 2 images with every classified listing.

For ALL members: Please ensure images uploaded to ads are your own photos taken of the actual product being listed. Moderators may remove listings that contain only Press or marketing photos or photos that are not your own. Photos taken from other listings, whether on CAM or from listings on other sites are prohibited.

New members and any members with low feedback may also consider including a photo that has a small piece of paper with the date and their AudioMart username on it. This is a great way to show that you have the product in hand and dates the photo reliably. Many established buyers ib CAM feel more confident when high quality, clear photos of the actual unit have been included in a listing.


Yes!! Good job CAM!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:26 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, BC, CA
This is possibly the most discussed announcement ever on CAM :)

To answer the question about dealers and subscribers: "new users" who have attached a verified ebay profile or are a paying member of the site are not required to post 2 images with listings.

In response to users who do not like the idea of required images: At this time this only applies to new users with no feedback. There's no roadmap that says we must apply this sitewide, but I won't discount that from being possible either, it will all depend on our experience with this current change (and already we are making some new tools in response to how new users are posting ads now that this requirement is in place). I should note also that I have indicated to Moderators that new members will be subject to more strict moderation of the image requirements.

Regarding whether this will "reduce scammers". My view is it provides more information, at the cost of a slightly higher burden for new users. If you are one of the many members here keeping an eye out for potential scams, the required photos now provide another data point for you to use. If you are a buyer doing his due diligence, the photos will also provide something else for you to investigate.

On the point of Paypal. As a buyer you can insist that the seller take Paypal if he has not established himself on the site yet.

Finally, we always keep in mind all constructive arguments when making decisions for the site.


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