Canuck Audio Mart Hifi and Audio ForumCanuck Audio Mart Hifi and Audio Forum
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:46 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:37 am
Posts: 490
Location: North GTA, ON, CA
Big thumbs down to the idea of charging for what are now free classifieds. It seems to me that those are the heart of CAM and should not be touched.

I love the forums but IMO if the classifieds dry up, that would be the end of CAM. Make no mistake, we Canucks are cheap and even a small fee could lead to that. There are other audio forums - and frankly, they can be far more informative than CAM forums on certain subjects (e.g. Computer Audiophile) - but nothing can replace CAM's classifieds.

As a registered member, I am not bothered by the ads as they help pay for CAM. Those that are bothered can register. Not so hard.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:03 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:43 am
Posts: 1115
Location: Stratford, ON, CA

pierre_b wrote: 'Make no mistake, we Canucks are cheap and even a small fee could lead to that (death of CAM).'

I think this comment really nails it. This is probably also the instinct of 'admin' regarding the members. So, time to move on.

David Neice

Chinese Proverb: 'Man who waits for roast duck to fly into mouth, waits very, very long time'.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:46 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:47 pm
Posts: 1403
Location: Oakville, ON, CA
Retro Audio wrote:
I have a right to not see ads. I'm under no obligation to look at, click on, or even load anybody's advertising. Advertisers have no right to force me to view their ads. I don't think it's unreasonable to not want to see, hear, or otherwise be exposed to advertising if I choose not to - especially if there's a free and easy way to do so (ie. adblockers).

And I strongly resent the implication that I'm not contributing to a website if I choose to block ads. I contribute in many other ways; in the case of CAM, I've been spreading the word about the site far and wide since I first learned of it over a decade ago - well before it was a major player in audio sales. I also regularly report ads and posts for a variety of infractions, volunteering many hours of my time every year to helping the mods and admins regulate the site. I contribute ideas, advice and information to CAM and its users whenever I'm able. Are those efforts not worth anything? Is it fair for me to have to pay to not see ads, after all I do (and have done) for the site?

Yes, I can opt out of the ads for a price - but why should I have to pay for the privilege of not being forced to see ads, when I can use a free ad blocker to do the same thing?

I've cut my cable for similar reasons - endless ads that are continuously tweaked to be less and less ignorable. And having to pay for that privilege? That's exactly the reason Shaw, Telus, Rogers et al will never see another penny from me for a cable tv subscription. Is this really the model good sites like CAM want to emulate?

To my recollection I've never, in the entire time I've used the internet (more than two decades), voluntarily clicked on a single ad. Accidentally? Hundreds, if not thousands of times. It's ridiculously easy to accidentally click on ads, especially on mobile devices with small screens (and that's obviously an intentional design). Then I'm paying in bandwidth usage for the privilege of being redirected to a site I have zero interest in? And maybe even pick up some malicious software along the way?

I use global ad blockers, because I don't want to see anyone's ads or popups. Ever. Before I used an ad blocker, I would zoom in the page view so I could only see the content I was interested in and exclude the unwanted ads etc - but now many sites have stopped allowing zooming, presumably to prevent people doing this exact thing.

I don't think it's unreasonable to want to have an ad-free experience on the internet. I'm already bombarded with plenty of ads I can't ignore in practically every public or private space in my life. And it's not like it's impossible to monetize a massive, fully-featured site without resorting to advertising - just look at craigslist. Anybody who tells me I must be subjected to more ads deserves to be ignored, at the very least.

(And there's another, more sinister side to this monetization of the site as well: is CAM creating a two-tier system, where those with the means can choose to ignore ads, while those of us with limited means are forced to endure more and more ads encroaching on an ever-shrinking screen of actual content? And if so, is that fair? And can anything - besides ads and/or adblockers - save our beloved site from this fate?)

I'm not saying that I'm right and CAM is wrong, or that I have all the answers. Nor am I trying to suggest that CAM is the only otherwise 'good' site to resort to ads to generate revenue. Obviously, websites need funding to keep operating and/or expanding, and ads are certainly one option. And I do plan to monetarily contribute to the site when and if I feel it's appropriate. Thanks to diversification of revenue, there are several options to directly contribute money to the site operators, either as charity or for practical reasons.

I'm also not saying that I'm ungrateful for everything CAM has done for me - besides making money from the sale of items on the site, I've also benefited from plenty of helpful advice and information, provided directly by the site and its staff as well as by other members, users and contributors. I'm extremely grateful for those things.

And generally speaking, I support CAM exploring different revenue-generating ideas. Clearly not everyone has the time and/or means to contribute in the same ways I do, and undoubtedly there are many users who have no problem with seeing ads, or paying to not see them.

But what I am saying, is that this is why I think and act the way I do. The sooner good websites like CAM can accept that, and work with my interests instead of against them, the better this world will be for all of us.

Oy vey! Why so serious? If everybody had the same attitude and acted the same way as you, there would be no CAM. Plain and simple. If you'd said that you were a premium member (i.e. had actually helped out the site owners by contributing a couple of bucks) then maybe I'd hear you out. But your attitude actually really irks me. If you can afford to participate in this hobby, you can financially support the site. And since you don't, (yes, you may in the future, if and when it suits you; whoopdeedoo) you shouldn't block the ads that CAM features to help fund the site. Is it really that big a deal? Unfortunately this is a matter of opinion, so in theory, there is no wrong opinion so why bother arguing but this sense of entitlement where you feel you have a right to something for nothing actually really ticks me off. Sorry, I rarely get personal here but seriously, give your head a shake. There's lots of far more important things to die on the cross for than whether an ad pops up when you are using the internet.

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