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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:46 pm 
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Location: Winnipeg, MB, CA
Close to the Edge wrote:
mpublicover wrote:
Close to the Edge wrote:
I know many people who have scammed when they used EMT's. And they will never again buy anything without using PayPal.

there is a difference though. EMT scams are targetted scams, so there are measures to help protect oneself to avoid. May not be fool proof but a buyer can always pull out if they feel uneasy at all.
In my case with PayPal, it wasn't targeted as a scam. the buyer obviously had a mishap with the phone shortly after buying it, lied to Paypal and used them for a buyer protection at my expense. Paypal let that happen. The only mistake I made was accepting PayPal. Any other method of payment and he, not I, would have had to absorb the cost of his mishap.



The problem with your story is that it is your side. The other side likely is a different story.


let me clarify. Buyer replies to my ad and asks to hold the phone until he gets off work. I decline so he offers to pay first through Paypal. I accept, meet up later, he inspects the phone and we part. If not for Paypal, this would be the end of the story.
Next day I'm notified the funds are frozen pending their dispute process. what a joke. The buyer claims we didn't meet and so he didn't get a chance to inspect it and that the screen was cracked when he opened it. I have photos of the phone from the ad and my wife confirming she drove me to the meet; yet Paypal sides with buyer. too much for them to consider he may have dropped the thing.
Contrary to your belief, not everyone who refuses to use PayPal is crooked. Why ever would I expose myself to such risk again? Fool me once..........
I get along just fine without it.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:54 pm 
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Location: Montreal, QC, CA
mpublicover wrote:
let me clarify. Buyer replies to my ad and asks to hold the phone until he gets off work. I decline so he offers to pay first through Paypal. I accept, meet up later, he inspects the phone and we part. If not for Paypal, this would be the end of the story.
Next day I'm notified the funds are frozen pending their dispute process. what a joke. The buyer claims we didn't meet and so he didn't get a chance to inspect it and that the screen was cracked when he opened it. I have photos of the phone from the ad and my wife confirming she drove me to the meet; yet Paypal sides with buyer. too much for them to consider he may have dropped the thing.
Contrary to your belief, not everyone who refuses to use PayPal is crooked. Why ever would I expose myself to such risk again? Fool me once..........
I get along just fine without it.


When meeting in person to inspect and exchange goods, why not have the buyer sign a receipt stating that the goods were in good working order and as presented in the ad. Simple enough and impossible to contest, even with PayPal. Works for retail stores and works for everyone else.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:53 am 
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Location: Fisher Branch, MB, CA
I am sorry to hear of your bad experience with Paypal. I would probably feel the same way if it were me. We all have the right to make our own choices and if you don't want to use Paypal, then that is okay. I on the other hand as a buyer feel safer using it for long distance transactions. For face to face transactions I pay cash. My last purchase was at a gas station outside of Winnipeg to buy a coffee grinder for $475. It works great and was half the price of a new one. Cash is king.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:15 am 
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Yup. Now with local you meet up, go through the goods, then EMT immediately phone to phone. Case closed everyone happy and no worries ever. It's awesome.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:27 am 
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That would work -if I owned a cell phone. :P


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:30 am 
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Location: Winnipeg, MB, CA
I deal with a credit union so there is often a delay in EMT. This is the only time I haven't dealt in cash on local.
I get the want to use Paypal when buying. Not only the protection but the option to use credit better suits some. I've only had one potential buyer pull away as he wanted to use Paypal. That case seemed more like a way out though as he offered and didn't respond again for a few days, even though he had considerable feedback.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:52 am 
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Everyone has had a bad experience at some point in time. I was not starting a debate between PayPal and EMT.

I was pointing out that on "CAM", not any other site, people have been scammed by the seller requesting EMT.

I was simple requesting that "Would it be possible to add a link somewhere on any ad that requests e-Transfer, with a note

"Please Read prior to sending money via e-transfer
"." to help the unknowing buyer on CAM.

Regards
Ohms

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:41 am 
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AudiOhm wrote:
Everyone has had a bad experience at some point in time. I was not starting a debate between PayPal and EMT.

I was pointing out that on "CAM", not any other site, people have been scammed by the seller requesting EMT.

I was simple requesting that "Would it be possible to add a link somewhere on any ad that requests e-Transfer, with a note

"Please Read prior to sending money via e-transfer
"." to help the unknowing buyer on CAM.

Regards
Ohms


And I was pointing out that if you think a noted warning when using EMT is a good idea then you might as well do that for Paypal because sellers can be defrauded too which when reading the whole post was said and is just as possible. I have received "buyer" email responses on Canuck saying they want to use paypal and will pay extra for shipping and will come pick up the item "at the door". Actually quite a few.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:41 am 
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Location: Burlington, ON, CA
I have never had any issues with payment as a buyer or seller for audio gear - using cash, EMT or Paypal.

I did once have a bad experience with a cash transaction around a motorcycle deal over 15 years ago. I let a guy take more than he paid for, and he never did send payment for the balance. My learning experience.

As a buyer, I mostly use Paypal or cash. As a seller I mostly use Paypal or cash, but have done EMT.

Last week I did buy via EMT transaction for an amp from another province on a Kijiji deal. It was a bit of a gut check - BUT, after doing research and asking some questions, I was satisfied that the person was who they claimed to be (turns out they happened to be a CAM member though this transaction was outside of CAM) and so I sent the $.

It all worked out great. The amp arrived this week, and was exactly as described.

I don't want to do that often - but in this case I did after copious research, and am glad I did.

Be careful out there and trust your gut folks.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:57 am 
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This thread turned into the usual PayPal vs EMT debate about which form is "better".

From the Moderators' perspective, about 90% of fraud cases we deal with (the ones that are actually reported) involve people sending money via EMT. So, yes, Scammers prefer EMT. Of the PayPal disputes where buyers make false claims, they are far more rare but they do happen. At least people have the opportunity to get PayPal to render a decision on whether the claim is valid or not. We warn users about sending money to strangers via EMT here: http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/scams.php There is good reason for this IMO and users who request PayPal because of this should not be admonished.

As for banning EMT entirely, I'm not sure that would completely eliminate cases of fraud plus there would be a pretty large number of users who would be upset. I'm sure the majority prefer having the choice of accepting either form of payment.

So it boils down to trust. Sellers with no feedback or history who do not accept PayPal are far less trustworthy than sellers with years of history and positive feedback. Your willingness to risk money by sending an EMT should inverse to how much you trust the seller.

Given that we provide ample warnings about the risks of sending money to strangers, I do not think it is worth keeping this thread open just to have people slag each others' preferred payment choices. Heed the warnings and do your due diligence before sending money to strangers.

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