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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:45 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:27 pm
Posts: 77
Location: Mount Pearl, NL, CA
I everyone, my name is Fred. I live in St. John's Newfoundland. I was hoping to get your input on my room layout, it doesn't seem to have the magic my previous listening room did. I've lived here for about 6 months and I just don't find listening in this room as engaging as my last room which was smaller and I was using bookshelf speakers. I am currently using PSB stratus bronze speakers and Polk PSW110 sub with a Lenco l75 turntable and computer audio for digital source, fed through a Luxman integrated. I have a Behringer DEQ2496 on the way, my purchase motivated by the fact that I can't get the type of sound I remember. The soundstage seems narrow, imaging is nonexistent and the bass is not at all tight.

A lot of the design and placement constraints in the room are motivated by WAF. I am attaching a drawing of the room I made on autodesk online, sorry I never used it before so it will seem rather amateurish. I hope you can see it or the rest of my post is moot! The speakers are denoted by the circles next to the media unit and the sub is drawn as that ottoman you see in the lower left hand corner. The equipment is actually located in that little alcove you see on the right side. The Projector you see there is mounted on the wall and projects onto a large screen which is denoted by the wall mounted TV over the media unit. I usually sit and listen on the loveseat. There is a painting on the wall over the couch measuring around 36 X 24. I don't have rear speakers at the moment as I'm primarily interested in music and the movie portion of the setup is motivated by pleasing the wife and giving her a reason why I have all that gear! Oh yeah, I also have a Denon AV receiver there which I hook up to the speakers now and then for the purpose of viewing a movie. I'd appreciate your comments on the room, which is approximately 13 X 22, and suggestions for how to improve it for music listening. Oh yeah, the floor is completely carpeted that ugly red you see there which will be soon changed over to a nice neutral sisal.

http://www.homestyler.com/designprofile ... 683b9e7024


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:47 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:47 am
Posts: 148
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Hi Fred,

moving your speakers out into the room will help. I used the Wilson Audio technique and it worked well for me. You can find this in one of the Wilson Audio speaker manuals online. Basically, it finds a speaker position that matches the acoustics of your room. But, I suspect the best acoustical spot for your speakers will not work for you practically.

Consider a different listening position. Grab a (somewhat portable) chair, and try different positions along the centre axis of the speakers. If you like to sit down, alone, with just you and the music, just find that best spot and sit there whenever you want. When you’re done, just put the chair away.

The coffee table between the love seat and speakers isn’t helping.

Try the subwoofer crawl technique to find a better location for your sub.

Consider some acoustical treatments. Pre-manufactured bass traps and wall panels can look pretty decent.

Also, you didn’t mention the specific Denon AVR you have. Does it have Audyssey? Audyssey will help. Consider an upgrade in your AVR if your current AVR does not have it. All of the items I mentioned above are the better way to go than room correction software. Room correction software is the last resort. But, when you have the WAF at play, it can be a good option, when you have no others.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:34 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:27 pm
Posts: 77
Location: Mount Pearl, NL, CA
Yes those are good ideas. I will try putting the coffee table away and finding a listening spot with a chair when I'm listening Alone, which tends to be the case when I'm listening to vinyl. I don't know what's wrong with most women, they don't seem to appreciate good music and good sound! (My sincere apologies formy misogyny to those that do!). I'm limited with where I can put the sub which is not really movable due to the constraints imposed upon me by WAF with regard to the furniture in the room. Acoustic treatments would likely be a similar faux pas. WAF!!! Curses!!!

Curious to know what you all think if the EQ option with the Beringer. I was hoping to cure a lot of the room related ills with this approach. Yea or nay?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 8:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:50 pm
Posts: 1067
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick, NB, CA
Hi Fred,

As you are (painfully) aware, room layout, and WAF are the two most important issues to deal with.

I would suggest that IF these two factors are impossible to deal with.....don't throw money on additional equipment.

Seriously consider quality headphones!

ALTERNATELY, temporarily ignore the WAF, move the speakers around the room, and find the spot where they SOUND, (not look) their best. Mark those spots with masking tape, etc......position your speakers there during your listening sessions, then move 'em back to their present location when not being used. A set of quality Shepard Casters attached to the bottom of your Bronzes makes the repositioning task much easier.

Additionally, make SURE you have a good selection of your wife's favourite music, even though you may not like it.
Remember, if you're playing music she doesn't like......it's just (unsightly) noise.
You've gotta get her interested, and involved.

Above all, remember that "a happy wife, makes a happy life."

Good Luck bye!

Cheers, del Sol


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:13 am 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 9:13 pm
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Location: Waterloo, ON, CA
The first thing I would try:

position your speakers on the long wall opposite your couch (so that you are listening from your current couch position). Don't even bother with the sub at this point---leave it where it is and turn it off.

start with them at 24" away from the wall (or 1/7 the total room width) and 6'-7' apart.
Then plan on spending the next couple of hours moving them around. Try 1/5 the room width also. Don't forget to mark the floor with tape everytime you find a spot that sounds good.

I agree that you have to put the WAF aside for an afternoon to do this "experiment" or you will never know what is even possible.

Once you find a place that has a good soundstage, then introduce the sub into the equation.

I'm pretty confident that wall will yield better results.

Of course, the tv is another matter....


Jon


Last edited by Neal C on Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:25 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:15 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:44 pm
Posts: 613
Location: Repentigny, QC, CA
In a recent article in The Absolute Sound of January 2015, Alan Taffel is writing about plants in the 2014 NY audio show .
He stated that in rooms with plants sound was better!?
He was saying that he could hear a difference and rooms without where sounding hard/bright.
I think I will try some synthetic ones of the small palm types, and they have high WAF !!
Good Luck and welcome to CAM Fred.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:25 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:27 pm
Posts: 77
Location: Mount Pearl, NL, CA
Neal C wrote:
The first thing I would try:

position your speakers on the long wall opposite your couch (so that you are listening from your current couch position). Don't even bother with the sub at this point---leave it where it is and turn it off.

start with them at least 24" away from the wall (or 1/5 the total room width) and 6'-7' apart.
Then plan on spending the next couple of hours moving them around. Don't forget to mark the floor with tape everytime you find a spot that sounds good.

I agree that you have to put the WAF aside for an afternoon to do this "experiment" or you will never know what is even possible.

Once you find a place that has a good soundstage, then introduce the sub into the equation.

I'm pretty confident that wall will yield better results.

Of course, the tv is another matter....


Jon


Oh there's only one thing about that wall, the stairwell goes up there and it's kind of a slanted half wall. Also, what you are suggesting would throw off the positioning of the speakers for the occasional movie watching (and hockey games!! :wink: ) I agree that it is a worthy experiment though and will try it just to see what can be done. Man, speaker wire starts to be an issue!

-- 07 Mar 2015 17:26 --

revoxb77 wrote:
In a recent article in The Absolute Sound of January 2015, Alan Taffel is writing about plants in the 2014 NY audio show .
He stated that in rooms with plants sound was better!?
He was saying that he could hear a difference and rooms without where sounding hard/bright.
I think I will try some synthetic ones of the small palm types, and they have high WAF !!
Good Luck and welcome to CAM Fred.


Oh thanks for the welcome. I like the idea of the plants, I will try some too. Too bad this is in a basement, I would love to try some real ones but there is just not enough light down there!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:43 am 
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Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 7:54 am
Posts: 3452
Location: Vernon, BC, CA
Can you flip the room 180 deg?


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