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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:35 am 
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Location: Montreal, QC, CA
Zipp wrote:
why are you so interested in audiophile instillation things like dedicated mains wiring if you are using digital as a source,you will not hear any benefit at all just wasting money.Correct installation is needed to help the magic of vinyl and tubes in the chain shine through .I have been in this many many years wasted my money and ears thinking I could make my cd's sound better,returned to vinyl with a fresh open mind.Studied and studied,started from scratch and tried to do everything correct ,being older really does make you wiser,now l have a system that sounds true high end ,dedicated power,complete room acoustic treatments and custom cabling,all home made through research.VPI t.t.,sound smith cartridge,custom made tube phono pre,YBA amps and Paridigm studio 20 v5 monitors on custom stands listening in near field.If I was to plug in a CD player no matter how good the player and Dac,the analog magic would be lost,sound so bad to be unlistenable,to bad it took me so long to learn all this ,but now you have been warned,so try and do it right the first time.Then start new obsession doing tweaks and learning how to listen to music,there is so much to learn about what it takes to produce true pure sound,I'm just trying to help people,soon as someone mentions digital of any source I cringe and think poor bastard,he will never experience the magic of spine chills,hair all over body tingling,having the breath sucked out of you by sounds in vinyl that only correct reproduction of music can achieve.


Very enlightening! I guess you haven't gone out much in the past 30 years, or you wouldn't be making such (ridiculous) claims... Contrary to what you may think though, the digital domain is one area that can greatly benefit from an improved power supply and distribution. And, as far as I'm concerned, a good digital source can outperform an analog one many times over. But, in order to make that comparison, you need to have equally capable machines that are also more or less equally priced. In other words, don't compare a $3000 TT to a $300 DAC or CD player. Anyway, if you do get the chance to go out, you may want to try to listen to some real music for a change. Not digital or analog. Just pure, natural, live music. You may find that the "analog magic" is not there either.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:38 am 
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Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 9:38 am
Posts: 8
Location: Cambridge, ON, CA
Gents,

ANy suggestion whom to hire to run a dedicated line in Kitchener/Waterloo/Hamilton area with grounds (not from the main panel but from outside)
?
Please suggest if anyone did this work for you and you can recommend someone..

Thank you !


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:51 am 
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Location: Montreal, QC, CA
shawnboyind wrote:
Hey if I can help, PM me. I'm an electrician and my advice is always free. I'll do my best to answer code and practical related questions.



Johnsap, I don't know if the above still holds true, but you could always give it a try.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:38 pm 
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Location: Brownsville, ON, CA
Please don't install a breaker larger (amperage) than you need. A breaker is there to save your life, house, equipment. I agree with "analogluvr" use a slimline breaker (2 breakers in one chassis).
When I did my room I only added 2 dedicated lines and now I regret it; I should have added at least one more and I'm an electrician.
The previous electrician "shawnboyind" who has offered to give you advice; I'd take him up on that.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:15 pm 
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Another word here for multiple dedicated lines, because I want to point out that the point is not so much to supply your equipment with power it doesn't have to share -- i.e. all the juice it needs.

The point, even more than that, is to isolate the gear from sources of AC pollution in the house, including the other gear in the system. Digital equipment, for example, is notorious for pumping hash back on to the AC line.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:24 pm 
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Posts: 1469
Location: London, ON, CA
Zipp wrote:
why are you so interested in audiophile instillation things like dedicated mains wiring if you are using digital as a source,you will not hear any benefit at all just wasting money.Correct installation is needed to help the magic of vinyl and tubes in the chain shine through .I have been in this many many years wasted my money and ears thinking I could make my cd's sound better,returned to vinyl with a fresh open mind.Studied and studied,started from scratch and tried to do everything correct ,being older really does make you wiser,now l have a system that sounds true high end ,dedicated power,complete room acoustic treatments and custom cabling,all home made through research.VPI t.t.,sound smith cartridge,custom made tube phono pre,YBA amps and Paridigm studio 20 v5 monitors on custom stands listening in near field.If I was to plug in a CD player no matter how good the player and Dac,the analog magic would be lost,sound so bad to be unlistenable,to bad it took me so long to learn all this ,but now you have been warned,so try and do it right the first time.Then start new obsession doing tweaks and learning how to listen to music,there is so much to learn about what it takes to produce true pure sound,I'm just trying to help people,soon as someone mentions digital of any source I cringe and think poor bastard,he will never experience the magic of spine chills,hair all over body tingling,having the breath sucked out of you by sounds in vinyl that only correct reproduction of music can achieve.

-- 05 Apr 2016 15:27 --

why are you so interested in audiophile instillation things like dedicated mains wiring if you are using digital as a source,you will not hear any benefit at all just wasting money.Correct installation is needed to help the magic of vinyl and tubes in the chain shine through .I have been in this many many years wasted my money and ears thinking I could make my cd's sound better,returned to vinyl with a fresh open mind.Studied and studied,started from scratch and tried to do everything correct ,being older really does make you wiser,now l have a system that sounds true high end ,dedicated power,complete room acoustic treatments and custom cabling,all home made through research.VPI t.t.,sound smith cartridge,custom made tube phono pre,YBA amps and Paridigm studio 20 v5 monitors on custom stands listening in near field.If I was to plug in a CD player no matter how good the player and Dac,the analog magic would be lost,sound so bad to be unlistenable,to bad it took me so long to learn all this ,but now you have been warned,so try and do it right the first time.Then start new obsession doing tweaks and learning how to listen to music,there is so much to learn about what it takes to produce true pure sound,I'm just trying to help people,soon as someone mentions digital of any source I cringe and think poor bastard,he will never experience the magic of spine chills,hair all over body tingling,having the breath sucked out of you by sounds in vinyl that only correct reproduction of music can achieve.


Wow....Dude your on a forking tear today....not only do you have nothing factual or particularly interesting to say , you seem to do so in a way that offends just about anyone who reads this.

Not to mention that some night school English might help your ability to articulate your point a little better. You have carpet bombed three threads now...please stop


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:32 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:57 pm
Posts: 209
Location: Etobicoke, ON, CA
I am a Master Electrician - and yes the guy that ran 40 amp subpanel to his listening room and then feed several branch circuits to his equipment is the way to go - do hire a trained and licenced expert, there is a difference.

Cheers


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:25 pm
Posts: 599
Location: toronto, ON, CA
ADCO wrote:
Zipp wrote:
why are you so interested in audiophile instillation things like dedicated mains wiring if you are using digital as a source,you will not hear any benefit at all just wasting money.Correct installation is needed to help the magic of vinyl and tubes in the chain shine through .I have been in this many many years wasted my money and ears thinking I could make my cd's sound better,returned to vinyl with a fresh open mind.Studied and studied,started from scratch and tried to do everything correct ,being older really does make you wiser,now l have a system that sounds true high end ,dedicated power,complete room acoustic treatments and custom cabling,all home made through research.VPI t.t.,sound smith cartridge,custom made tube phono pre,YBA amps and Paridigm studio 20 v5 monitors on custom stands listening in near field.If I was to plug in a CD player no matter how good the player and Dac,the analog magic would be lost,sound so bad to be unlistenable,to bad it took me so long to learn all this ,but now you have been warned,so try and do it right the first time.Then start new obsession doing tweaks and learning how to listen to music,there is so much to learn about what it takes to produce true pure sound,I'm just trying to help people,soon as someone mentions digital of any source I cringe and think poor bastard,he will never experience the magic of spine chills,hair all over body tingling,having the breath sucked out of you by sounds in vinyl that only correct reproduction of music can achieve.

-- 05 Apr 2016 15:27 --

why are you so interested in audiophile instillation things like dedicated mains wiring if you are using digital as a source,you will not hear any benefit at all just wasting money.Correct installation is needed to help the magic of vinyl and tubes in the chain shine through .I have been in this many many years wasted my money and ears thinking I could make my cd's sound better,returned to vinyl with a fresh open mind.Studied and studied,started from scratch and tried to do everything correct ,being older really does make you wiser,now l have a system that sounds true high end ,dedicated power,complete room acoustic treatments and custom cabling,all home made through research.VPI t.t.,sound smith cartridge,custom made tube phono pre,YBA amps and Paridigm studio 20 v5 monitors on custom stands listening in near field.If I was to plug in a CD player no matter how good the player and Dac,the analog magic would be lost,sound so bad to be unlistenable,to bad it took me so long to learn all this ,but now you have been warned,so try and do it right the first time.Then start new obsession doing tweaks and learning how to listen to music,there is so much to learn about what it takes to produce true pure sound,I'm just trying to help people,soon as someone mentions digital of any source I cringe and think poor bastard,he will never experience the magic of spine chills,hair all over body tingling,having the breath sucked out of you by sounds in vinyl that only correct reproduction of music can achieve.


Wow....Dude your on a forking tear today....not only do you have nothing factual or particularly interesting to say , you seem to do so in a way that offends just about anyone who reads this.

Not to mention that some night school English might help your ability to articulate your point a little better. You have carpet bombed three threads now...please stop


:roll:
My English are poor too,I am afraid night schools aren't doing a very good job.Can I still be your friend?
Regards
George


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:02 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:58 am
Posts: 292
Location: Charlottetown, PE, CA
Fellow electrician here. :)

AV leg
Dedicated 15A for subs. (20 if your sub is known to have high inrush)
Dedicated 15/20A UPS. (Or AV 15/20A to rack location)
Dedicated 15A projector.
Dedicated 15A front wall flex AV use. (Future proofing)
Dedicated 15A rear wall AV use. (Future proofing)
Dedicated 15A TV wall mount reptacle at 5'. (can share on AV rack cct if it is located front middle if room.)

Other leg
Dedicated general use receptacles. (Vacuuming, lamps, etc.)
Dedicated lighting.
Dedicated beer fridge outside space.

AV on same leg in panel. Noisy loads on other. Built 3 AV rooms like this. No issues. Lots of headroom.

2" chase from rack to PJ.
2" chase from rack to bottom center front wall with T-off to TV mount at 5'.
2" chase from rack to rear wall (future proofing)

Data to rack, pj and TV mount locations.

7.2.4 Channel prewire for mutichannel immersive audio.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:41 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:19 am
Posts: 1469
Location: London, ON, CA
Yiorgos wrote:
ADCO wrote:
Zipp wrote:
why are you so interested in audiophile instillation things like dedicated mains wiring if you are using digital as a source,you will not hear any benefit at all just wasting money.Correct installation is needed to help the magic of vinyl and tubes in the chain shine through .I have been in this many many years wasted my money and ears thinking I could make my cd's sound better,returned to vinyl with a fresh open mind.Studied and studied,started from scratch and tried to do everything correct ,being older really does make you wiser,now l have a system that sounds true high end ,dedicated power,complete room acoustic treatments and custom cabling,all home made through research.VPI t.t.,sound smith cartridge,custom made tube phono pre,YBA amps and Paridigm studio 20 v5 monitors on custom stands listening in near field.If I was to plug in a CD player no matter how good the player and Dac,the analog magic would be lost,sound so bad to be unlistenable,to bad it took me so long to learn all this ,but now you have been warned,so try and do it right the first time.Then start new obsession doing tweaks and learning how to listen to music,there is so much to learn about what it takes to produce true pure sound,I'm just trying to help people,soon as someone mentions digital of any source I cringe and think poor bastard,he will never experience the magic of spine chills,hair all over body tingling,having the breath sucked out of you by sounds in vinyl that only correct reproduction of music can achieve.

-- 05 Apr 2016 15:27 --

why are you so interested in audiophile instillation things like dedicated mains wiring if you are using digital as a source,you will not hear any benefit at all just wasting money.Correct installation is needed to help the magic of vinyl and tubes in the chain shine through .I have been in this many many years wasted my money and ears thinking I could make my cd's sound better,returned to vinyl with a fresh open mind.Studied and studied,started from scratch and tried to do everything correct ,being older really does make you wiser,now l have a system that sounds true high end ,dedicated power,complete room acoustic treatments and custom cabling,all home made through research.VPI t.t.,sound smith cartridge,custom made tube phono pre,YBA amps and Paridigm studio 20 v5 monitors on custom stands listening in near field.If I was to plug in a CD player no matter how good the player and Dac,the analog magic would be lost,sound so bad to be unlistenable,to bad it took me so long to learn all this ,but now you have been warned,so try and do it right the first time.Then start new obsession doing tweaks and learning how to listen to music,there is so much to learn about what it takes to produce true pure sound,I'm just trying to help people,soon as someone mentions digital of any source I cringe and think poor bastard,he will never experience the magic of spine chills,hair all over body tingling,having the breath sucked out of you by sounds in vinyl that only correct reproduction of music can achieve.


Wow....Dude your on a forking tear today....not only do you have nothing factual or particularly interesting to say , you seem to do so in a way that offends just about anyone who reads this.

Not to mention that some night school English might help your ability to articulate your point a little better. You have carpet bombed three threads now...please stop


:roll:
My English are poor too,I am afraid night schools aren't doing a very good job.Can I still be your friend?
Regards
George


Ha! Fair enough, however I don't recall you writing a post as long as a novel with zero content... Or grammar comes to that


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:54 am 
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Posts: 73
Location: Rose dale, BC, CA
Watch video from audioholics.com ,digital vs. Analog.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:16 am 
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Location: Southern, ON, CA
Is it just me who appreciates the irony of the line...'Being older does make you wiser'


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:43 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:59 am
Posts: 1774
Location: Caledonia, ON, CA
Zipp wrote:
Watch video from audioholics.com ,digital vs. Analog.


While I don't disagree with the statement that vinyl/analog can be superior to cd/digital. The comparison in that article is only comparing one type of digital playback with one record player/phono stage combo. And it appears that neither of the sources is very good quality. A good digital transport/d-a setup can outperform some really good analog turntable/phono stages and vice versa.

How did we go from 'wiring my basement' to the old analog vs digital war. :shock: :roll:
And yes I do believe that dedicated ac lines can be a huge benefit to both analog and digital.


Last edited by newmusic on Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:04 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:39 pm
Posts: 1673
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Serenity_now wrote:
Fellow electrician here. :)

AV leg
Dedicated 15A for subs. (20 if your sub is known to have high inrush)
Dedicated 15/20A UPS. (Or AV 15/20A to rack location)
Dedicated 15A projector.
Dedicated 15A front wall flex AV use. (Future proofing)
Dedicated 15A rear wall AV use. (Future proofing)
Dedicated 15A TV wall mount reptacle at 5'. (can share on AV rack cct if it is located front middle if room.)



You're kidding, right? Dedicated 15A for the sub? What kind of sub are you running - 1.5 KW RMS? What does the breaker size have to do with high inrush? If you're a licensed electrician, ever heard of C, D or K-curve breakers - specifically designed with high inrush spikes in mind (think slow blow fuse equivalent, but way more advanced)?

I hope you're talking "dedicated" receptacles, and not dedicated breakers.... if someone told me that I need a dedicated line for the TV, I'd laugh in their face.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:10 pm 
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Location: Charlottetown, PE, CA
This is for a fully fledged HT roughin. If you are making a sound room might as well consider resale and futureproofing. Wiring is cheap when you're at studs. :)

When we wire up a place its for a worst case forever scenario. ie. If the load is unknown we over spec.

The idea for the TV receptacle being dedicated is it's recessed behind a wall mount. There are many ways to do this stuff, you could share with the PJ or AV rack or both. It depends where stuff is planned for in the room. In AV room scenarios I usually run dedicated lines where possible so a future remote UPS install is available with discrete homeruns. Options.

I would never spec a job to buy specialized breakers. Cheaper to pull another cct and add a single pole 15 or upgrade to 20A cct. I also spec a dedicated line for subs, as a single sub is rarely used in a real deal room. 2 minimum, 4 is also common in high end setups. Some people choose more.... :) We don't decide if an amp uses a current limiting cap charging cct or not. A nuissance tripping service call costs more $ than doing it right.

With the setup I spec you can go to a pro powered monitor setup like Seaton or JTR or JBL synthesis stuff. Its about options at the framing stage. :)


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