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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:13 pm 
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I recently purchased the book Get Better Sound by Jim Smith, it's been discussed on another forum. In the book and in a recent follow-up email he emphasized the importance of not having your gear between the speakers....I've always had my gear between my speakers :? for aesthetic reasons and it seemed like the right place to put it. Anyways I thought I'd move it out of the way and see what happened. Of course this requires longer speaker cables of which I had an old pair of CAT 5 cables I had made up.

My first reaction was disappointment as I thought the speakers cables had degraded the sound so much, in the mid bass especially, that it eliminated any advantages to his suggestion. So back the rack went between the speakers. However not much of an improvement even with the better speaker cables. Then I realized I had taken down a couple of absorption panels from the side wall to accommodate the rack when I moved, put them back up and voila magic again, so I thought I'd try one more time, well this time there was a significant improvement in sound-staging and the the overall presentation of the music. Sound staging expanded and the music was just that much more enjoyable. Now I just need to find some decent longer speakers cables.

I highly recommend trying this if you have the room for it, also a little side benefit from my trials was to realize how important room tuning is to the overall sound. Simply removing the absorption panel resulted in resonances in the mid bass and lower mid range.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:33 pm 
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Room tuning - of course
Gear not in middle - nonsense, totally psychological

If nothing else it's good to be reminded of how vital room treatments are.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:34 am 
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JmanGTA wrote:
Gear not in middle - nonsense, totally psychological


You're so sure of this eh? Nonsense, totally psychological. Just how did you come to this conclusion, as the way in which you make this statement certainly leaves the impression that this is more than a mere opinion? I would be interested in hearing any scientific evidence that proves your disclaimer.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:46 am 
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Good sound..... you've presented us with a "delicious irony". With your vigorous defence of the "trust your ears" position on many occasions, one would have thought that scientific proof was not really something that was part of your belief system.

Now you request that something beyond a personal belief stated as fact be proven, or at least corroborated by more than anecdotal evidence.

Have you turned to the dark side?

For the record, I believe that gear left anywhere in the room has an impact on the sonics...... entirely provable, but aurally insignificant compared to the more immediate problem of other controlling factors.

However, if moving ones' gear gives one a sense of accomplishment, or makes one feel that they have made a discerneable improvement, enjoy. That's what this hobby is all about............. making improvements to the level of ones' ability.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:58 am 
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Unless your speakers feature limited mid and high frequency dispersion (Horn loaded mids n' highs or Dipoles) then of course removing an AV rack/cabinet/gear from between the speakers will make a positive difference! Conventional forward radiating speakers feature surprisingly wide dispersion at all frequencies, particularly today with the fashion for tall, narrow speaker cabinets. Like nearby walls, floors, and the ceiling- said rack and gear is just one more source of early reflections! Early reflections mess with your speaker's imaging and soundstaging abilities. Remove or acoustically treat all those sources of early reflections and you'll reap sonic rewards.

Happy Trails!
Vince@Freewheelcycle.com

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:59 am 
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well, even if the sound gets better I do not hide my equipment and leave only the speakers in the listening room. Part of the great things about this hobby is the look of the equipment too, not just the sound.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:51 am 
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dungvn wrote:
well, even if the sound gets better I do not hide my equipment and leave only the speakers in the listening room. Part of the great things about this hobby is the look of the equipment too, not just the sound.



Most people don't have their equipment in another room. Some try and keep the equipment in a location that will not affect the speakers or so the equipment won't be affected by the output of the speakers as much (like avoiding putting a turntable in the corner of the room). But, most people put the equipment between the speakers for various reasons. It does affect the sound negatively though.

As for the look of the equipment, that really only matters because you have it all smack-dab in the middle of your room between the speakers where you can't help but look at it. :) Seriously though, sure, I like decent looking equipment because it sits on a shelf in my living room but I don't go out of my way to buy the components that look the "best", I just avoid really "ugly" or "gaudy" components. My Lavry DA-10 is rather utilitarian looking though. Making sure speakers look nice in the room is pretty important though.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:56 am 
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Another simple tweak that may or may not be well known is that the coffee (beer)table you have in front of your listening sofa is doing nasty things to your sound.
Try to move it out of the way and listen to how your sound improves.

You can always use a folding camp chair with a cup holding pocket or side table for your brew.

One of the main reasons for short speaker cables and placing the amp close to the speakers is just so that you don't have all the junk in between.
Maybe getting rid of the junk is the reason why short speaker wires seem to sound better.It's not the length but the absence of junk.

Also if you are into vinyl, doesn't it make more sense to position your turntable off to the side or even out of the room altogether?
I always cringe at the site of sprung tables placed smack dab in the middle of full range speakers.Even unsprung tables phono cartridges can pick up the sound from the speakers and re-amplify it.Worst case would be feedback,but mostly rumble, hum, people can confuse with motor noise.
Would anyone in their right mind use a subwoofer as a turntable stand?
Yet most people see no harm in placing a turntable a few feet away from their speakers.

Is any of this covered in the book?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:02 am 
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Ah yes the Davinci code rears it's head.
yes acquire all the gear you can and place it all in the listening or should I say museum room and say "looky looky what all I got".
Then shout from the roof tops "it's not about the gear, it's all about the music"


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:12 am 
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Quote:
Ah yes the Davinci code rears it's head.
yes acquire all the gear you can and place it all in the listening or should I say museum room and say "looky looky what all I got".
Then shout from the roof tops "it's not about the gear, it's all about the music"





?

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Even if you've tried it, consider the six blind men describing the elephant before offering your opinion!


Last edited by davinci_redux on Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:24 am 
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I don't believe in magnet/electrical fields because I can't see them :shock: :shock:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:46 am 
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Chuck Lee wrote:
Ah yes the Davinci code rears it's head.
yes acquire all the gear you can and place it all in the listening or should I say museum room and say "looky looky what all I got".
Then shout from the roof tops "it's not about the gear, it's all about the music"


WTF....where'd that come from?????

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:39 pm 
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WTF....where'd that come from?????


I believe that the (old) medical term is apoplexy! He's just peeved that I beat him to the last Holiday amp at Consumer's Distributing.

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Even if you've tried it, consider the six blind men describing the elephant before offering your opinion!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:02 pm 
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davinci_redux wrote:
Good sound..... you've presented us with a "delicious irony". With your vigorous defence of the "trust your ears" position on many occasions, one would have thought that scientific proof was not really something that was part of your belief system.

Now you request that something beyond a personal belief stated as fact be proven, or at least corroborated by more than anecdotal evidence.

Have you turned to the dark side?

For the record, I believe that gear left anywhere in the room has an impact on the sonics...... entirely provable, but aurally insignificant compared to the more immediate problem of other controlling factors.

However, if moving ones' gear gives one a sense of accomplishment, or makes one feel that they have made a discernible improvement, enjoy. That's what this hobby is all about............. making improvements to the level of ones' ability.


The dark side, hmmm. Now what side would that be?

I don't see any irony, delicious or otherwise. What I do see is, what to me anyhow, was sarcasm of an obvious nature. I don't see how belief systems have any bearing on the matter honestly. Concurrently I don't see the correlation between a belief system and scientific proof. Inherently a belief system by nature leaves room for the possibility that our conclusions are incorrect, additionally this would require a certain amount of faith. For the most part the contributors to this site, and others like it, that proclaim that if it can't be measured it doesn't exist, have no use for the concept of faith and subsequently the slight chance that they may be wrong, unless it can be proven. It either is or it isn't, and if you can't present solid evidence to prove that it is, then it isn't, period.

I admit that in the past I have supported the "trust your ears" dogma and assuredly will continue to do so in the future, on that you can bet. I certainly would not however, characterize this support as vigorous.
What I have never done is proclaim, in any form or fashion, that my "belief" is anything more than just that., a belief. I may one day indeed be proven wrong, and if such an event should happen would accept it fully. This is at the heart of my problem with the post I responded to, that the poster stated something that was merely an opinion as fact. He didn't just leave it at that though,no, he then had to go on and belittle the OP by stating that the tweak in question was, nonsense, totally psychological. I already argued the pertinence of whether or not something actually sounds different or not,or is only perceived to sound different, and really don't want to get into all of that right now. Suffice it to say that I would paraphrase that opinion as being ,perception isn't just more important than reality, to the perceived it is reality. In other words if I hear a difference then there is a difference. You remember that one don't you?

Truth be told I have no argument with science and proof. Lets face it in today's society proof is the bottom line for everyone. However I am also of the opinion that for someone to think that we have all of the answers and there is nothing left to learn and that the human mind and hearing is consistently unreliable, well to me that is just arrogant.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:55 pm 
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Good Sound:


?

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Some people like the taste of smokey whiskey, others think that tea's too strong!!
Even if you've tried it, consider the six blind men describing the elephant before offering your opinion!


Last edited by davinci_redux on Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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