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 Post subject: Tube Rush
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:22 am 
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Location: Sherbrooke, QC, CA
Started getting some rush in the left channel. I presume it is coming from the pre-amp (ARC Reference 2 mk II). And I presume, based on very little I must admit, that the tube rush has to come from the signal tubes and not the ones on the power supply side. The 6L6 was replaced a few months ago so I may also order the 5AR4 and be done with it.

I will re-tube without delay.

Here is my question: why is the noise only in the left channel?

I appreciate that this is more related to circuit topology. Of the six signal tubes are three assigned to each channel?

Those Russian 6H30 "supertubes" are touted as having great longevity.

Is there anything good to be said about attempting to determine how many of these signal tubes have gone bad and just replacing the noisy tube(s)? I am inclined to replace the six but wouldn't mind saving money and the planet also.

I would have to dig out the invoices to get a date on when the pre-amp was re-tubed.

Thanks.


Last edited by PBB on Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tube Rush
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:39 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:18 am
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Location: Surrey , BC, CA
it may be a tube or bad connection...re-set the tubes to find out. usually you have half for left and half for right channel...you can probably leave the 6H30 as these last forever...I am not familiar with this unit, but just switch the tubes from left to right (one row at the time) and see if the problem shifts to the other side...


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 Post subject: Re: Tube Rush
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:46 am 
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Location: Calgary, AB, CA
Here's what I know the 6H30 tube lifecycle's average is 5,000 hrs. The rest of the tubes in the ARC Ref2 pre-amp lifecycle's is 4,000 hrs. So, therefore, it's fair to say that you should retube every 4,000 hrs. which is equivalent to about 4 years of use depending on your listening habit of course.


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 Post subject: Re: Tube Rush
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:08 pm 
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Location: Sherbrooke, QC, CA
tube54 wrote:
Here's what I know the 6H30 tube lifecycle's average is 5,000 hrs. The rest of the tubes in the ARC Ref2 pre-amp lifecycle's is 4,000 hrs. So, therefore, it's fair to say that you should retube every 4,000 hrs. which is equivalent to about 4 years of use depending on your listening habit of course.



Your last sentence is what I can't figure out. I know that as I get older I am listening much less frequently even though I have all the time in the world being retired.


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 Post subject: Re: Tube Rush
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Location: Calgary, AB, CA
PBB wrote:
tube54 wrote:
Here's what I know the 6H30 tube lifecycle's average is 5,000 hrs. The rest of the tubes in the ARC Ref2 pre-amp lifecycle's is 4,000 hrs. So, therefore, it's fair to say that you should retube every 4,000 hrs. which is equivalent to about 4 years of use depending on your listening habit of course.



Your last sentence is what I can't figure out. I know tat as I get older I am listening much less frequently.


4 years of listening enjoyment meaning 1,000 hrs/year. 1,000/365= 2.7 hrs. of listening/day. So, therefore, 2.7 or 3 hours thereabout are the average that most of us listen to our stereo in a day.


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 Post subject: Re: Tube Rush
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:43 pm 
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Location: Sherbrooke, QC, CA
tube54 wrote:
PBB wrote:
tube54 wrote:
Here's what I know the 6H30 tube lifecycle's average is 5,000 hrs. The rest of the tubes in the ARC Ref2 pre-amp lifecycle's is 4,000 hrs. So, therefore, it's fair to say that you should retube every 4,000 hrs. which is equivalent to about 4 years of use depending on your listening habit of course.



Your last sentence is what I can't figure out. I know that as I get older I am listening much less frequently.


4 years of listening enjoyment meaning 1,000 hrs/year. 1,000/365= 2.7 hrs. of listening/day. So, therefore, 2.7 or 3 hours thereabout are the average that most of us listen to our stereo in a day.



I don't know how many times I have gone through that exercise over the years. I have been well below what you mention for many years. Piecing it together: I go down to the listening room maybe three times a week and seldom listen to more than two ceedes or LPs. So that maybe 2.5 hours a sitting X 3 times a week = 7.5 hours x 49 weeks = 367.5. (49 takes into account stays away from home). I will round it up to 400 hours and I should be getting 10 years of service from the tubes barring possible issues.

Now to chase down the invoice in my basement...

Regards.


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 Post subject: Re: Tube Rush
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:14 pm 
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I wouldn't get fussed about how old the tubes are, sometimes tube just get noisy, or fail outright.

There is also a difference between how long a tube will be functional, and how long it will have optimal sound. It's unfortunate but many Audiophiles buy expensive preamps but try save a couple of bucks by running tubes which are sonically past their prime. In Jim Smith's book, Get Better Sound, he suggests that one should keep a spare set of tubes on hand, and periodically install them; if the new tubes sound the same as the old ones, take them out and go back to the old ones. One day the new tubes will sound better, at which time you should keep them in the preamp, and order another spare set.

As for replacements, I would recommend either ordering from ARC directly, or Upscale Audio in California. Although the 6H30 isn't a really troublesome tube, other tube vendors don't actually listen to signal tubes and grade them. Upscale Audio actually has a "Audio Research" grade of 6H30's for preamp applications.


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 Post subject: Re: Tube Rush
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:32 pm 
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Location: Sherbrooke, QC, CA
electrafixion wrote:
I wouldn't get fussed about how old the tubes are, sometimes tube just get noisy, or fail outright.

There is also a difference between how long a tube will be functional, and how long it will have optimal sound. It's unfortunate but many Audiophiles buy expensive preamps but try save a couple of bucks by running tubes which are sonically past their prime. In Jim Smith's book, Get Better Sound, he suggests that one should keep a spare set of tubes on hand, and periodically install them; if the new tubes sound the same as the old ones, take them out and go back to the old ones. One day the new tubes will sound better, at which time you should keep them in the preamp, and order another spare set.

As for replacements, I would recommend either ordering from ARC directly, or Upscale Audio in California. Although the 6H30 isn't a really troublesome tube, other tube vendors don't actually listen to signal tubes and grade them. Upscale Audio actually has a "Audio Research" grade of 6H30's for preamp applications.



Great suggestion to have a set of back-ups and to install them to be in a position to see if some deterioration has set in.

I realize that ARC is picky when it comes to tubes and that Upscale has a great reputation in grading tubes but I think I will go with the Tube Depot or the Tube Store for $$$$ reasons and 6h30s are, well, 6h30, it's either Sovteks or EH. I have the EH in the pre-amp now and will probably go that route again.


Thanks.

BTW can power tubes in power amps be affected by tube rush? I would think the do but right now I get the noise in the left channel whether the tube power amps are in the system or the transistor amps.


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 Post subject: Re: Tube Rush
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:59 pm 
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Location: *, ON, CA
I don’t know about the tube depot, but the folks at the tube store are excellent. And, they do test and match all their tubes. Over the years I have purchased several sets that matched near perfectly when tested independently. They also offer a warranty that I have only had to utilize once and they did so without hesitation. In short their service has been nothing short of excellent. T


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 Post subject: Re: Tube Rush
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:38 pm 
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tsearay wrote:
I don’t know about the tube depot, but the folks at the tube store are excellent. And, they do test and match all their tubes. Over the years I have purchased several sets that matched near perfectly when tested independently. They also offer a warranty that I have only had to utilize once and they did so without hesitation. In short their service has been nothing short of excellent. T

Don't confuse testing measurements on a tube tester for electrical characteristics with testing (listening) and grading for audible noise. The gain stage of a preamp is much more sensitive to noise than a driver of buffer circuit. I've bought tubes all the well known vendors over the years, but the only place that offers tubes graded by noise as far as I know is Upscale.


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