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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:36 am 
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Location: Peachland, BC, CA
Hey guys,

I'm awaiting a Linear Tube Audio MZ2 tube pre/integrated/headphone amp.

After a lot of research and great reviews, I pulled the trigger. This unit will allow me to use it as a pre or as an integrated amp for my Tekton DI's freeing up my Line Mag to power a second system when desired. Would also be nice to run some headphones at certain times. From what I understand the MZ2 can run either the 6sn7 or 12sn7 tubes using a jumper. I believe the 12sn7 tubes are cheaper and much more plentiful.

Anyways, I don't have a huge amount of tube rolling experience and most of my research has always been on the power tube end of things.

My questions:

1) Are there any output differences between the 6sn7 and 12sn7 tubes? Does one style have certain sonic characteristics over the other or put out more power?

2) What is the difference between a 12sn7 and a 12at7 tube?

Thank you!

_________________
Amp: Line Magnetic 508
Pre amp: LTA MZ2
DAC: Chord 2Qute
Turntable: Rega RP1 w/ Rega Fono Mini A2D
CD Player: NAD 517
Speakers: Coming soon...Audio Note Kit 03


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:41 am 
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Location: Fairport Beach (in Pickering), ON, CA
347strokin wrote:
Hey guys,

I'm awaiting a Linear Tube Audio MZ2 tube pre/integrated/headphone amp.

After a lot of research and great reviews, I pulled the trigger. This unit will allow me to use it as a pre or as an integrated amp for my Tekton DI's freeing up my Line Mag to power a second system when desired. Would also be nice to run some headphones at certain times. From what I understand the MZ2 can run either the 6sn7 or 12sn7 tubes using a jumper. I believe the 12sn7 tubes are cheaper and much more plentiful.

Anyways, I don't have a huge amount of tube rolling experience and most of my research has always been on the power tube end of things.

My questions:

1) Are there any output differences between the 6sn7 and 12sn7 tubes? Does one style have certain sonic characteristics over the other or put out more power?

2) What is the difference between a 12sn7 and a 12at7 tube?

Thank you!


1) Same tubes except one has 6.3v 0.6 amp heaters and the other has 12.6v 0.3 amp heaters.

2) It would be easier to post what they have in common: 12.6v heaters. They are not interchangeable as the 12SN7 uses an octal socket and the 12AT7 uses a miniature 9 pin socket.

Congrats on the new pre!

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Collecting vintage tube Pilot (Pilotone) HiFi gear.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:57 am 
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Location: Peachland, BC, CA
Tom_r wrote:
347strokin wrote:
Hey guys,

I'm awaiting a Linear Tube Audio MZ2 tube pre/integrated/headphone amp.

After a lot of research and great reviews, I pulled the trigger. This unit will allow me to use it as a pre or as an integrated amp for my Tekton DI's freeing up my Line Mag to power a second system when desired. Would also be nice to run some headphones at certain times. From what I understand the MZ2 can run either the 6sn7 or 12sn7 tubes using a jumper. I believe the 12sn7 tubes are cheaper and much more plentiful.

Anyways, I don't have a huge amount of tube rolling experience and most of my research has always been on the power tube end of things.

My questions:

1) Are there any output differences between the 6sn7 and 12sn7 tubes? Does one style have certain sonic characteristics over the other or put out more power?

2) What is the difference between a 12sn7 and a 12at7 tube?

Thank you!


1) Same tubes except one has 6.3v 0.6 amp heaters and the other has 12.6v 0.3 amp heaters.

2) It would be easier to post what they have in common: 12.6v heaters. They are not interchangeable as the 12SN7 uses an octal socket and the 12AT7 uses a miniature 9 pin socket.

Congrats on the new pre!


Much appreciated! Thank you.

_________________
Amp: Line Magnetic 508
Pre amp: LTA MZ2
DAC: Chord 2Qute
Turntable: Rega RP1 w/ Rega Fono Mini A2D
CD Player: NAD 517
Speakers: Coming soon...Audio Note Kit 03


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:06 am 
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Posts: 796
Location: Stratford, ON, CA
Hi,
Tom r makes a few good points for newbie tube rollers.

1) Keep your North American tubes with the prefix 6 separate from the 12's. These numbers refer to the expected heater voltage for the tube at either 6 volts or 12 volts. Obviously plugging a six rated tube into a 12 socket is going to cause a problem.

2) If the tube has a European designation i.e. EL34, look the tube up to get the North American equivalent (6CA7) and the expected heater voltage.

3) Tubes are pretty tough beasts and can be, for brief periods, stuck in sockets that are inappropriate to their function provided the heater voltage is correct.

4) Matching heater voltage, socket configuration (i.e. # of pins and spacing), and functional type are the key elements. So, for instance, a 12AX7 can be replaced by a 12AT7, without doing harm, as well as other tubes in the 12A series, since it was a tube that ran through many different iterations.

Cheers,
David Neice

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:22 am 
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buybye88 wrote:
Hi,
Tom r makes a few good points for newbie tube rollers.

1) Keep your North American tubes with the prefix 6 separate from the 12's. These numbers refer to the expected heater voltage for the tube at either 6 volts or 12 volts. Obviously plugging a six rated tube into a 12 socket is going to cause a problem.

2) If the tube has a European designation i.e. EL34, look the tube up to get the North American equivalent (6CA7) and the expected heater voltage.

3) Tubes are pretty tough beasts and can be, for brief periods, stuck in sockets that are inappropriate to their function provided the heater voltage is correct.

4) Matching heater voltage, socket configuration (i.e. # of pins and spacing), and functional type are the key elements. So, for instance, a 12AX7 can be replaced by a 12AT7, without doing harm, as well as other tubes in the 12A series, since it was a tube that ran through many different iterations.

Cheers,
David Neice


OK! It's starting to make a lot of sense. Thanks for the info. That also opens up a lot more for research as well.

_________________
Amp: Line Magnetic 508
Pre amp: LTA MZ2
DAC: Chord 2Qute
Turntable: Rega RP1 w/ Rega Fono Mini A2D
CD Player: NAD 517
Speakers: Coming soon...Audio Note Kit 03


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:16 pm 
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Quote:
So, for instance, a 12AX7 can be replaced by a 12AT7, without doing harm, as well as other tubes in the 12A series, since it was a tube that ran through many different iterations.

True, it will do no harm, but they may not work. And at best if they work, they will not work properly. A 12AX7 is different beast than a 12AT7 and different again from a 12AU7 etc.
as for the 12SN7 and 12AT7 - totally different non-compatible tubes.

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http://www.dtsaudioelectronics.com


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:29 pm
Posts: 53
Location: Orillia, ON, CA
347strokin wrote:
Hey guys,

I'm awaiting a Linear Tube Audio MZ2 tube pre/integrated/headphone amp.

After a lot of research and great reviews, I pulled the trigger. This unit will allow me to use it as a pre or as an integrated amp for my Tekton DI's freeing up my Line Mag to power a second system when desired. Would also be nice to run some headphones at certain times. From what I understand the MZ2 can run either the 6sn7 or 12sn7 tubes using a jumper. I believe the 12sn7 tubes are cheaper and much more plentiful.

Anyways, I don't have a huge amount of tube rolling experience and most of my research has always been on the power tube end of things.

My questions:

1) Are there any output differences between the 6sn7 and 12sn7 tubes? Does one style have certain sonic characteristics over the other or put out more power?

2) What is the difference between a 12sn7 and a 12at7 tube?

Thank you!

I haven’t gotten around to any tube rolling with my MZ2 S though I ordered the preamp with LTAs nos offering for 12sn7 & 12at7 including LTAs premium DC cable from the power supply too the preamp .

Though I have purchased other nos tubes prior to receiving the preamp , Red Line Bendix 12sn7s including a nice pair of early 1950s black plate RCA 12at7s however I’m going to leave good enough alone for now because I’m thourally enjoying what I’m hearing .

I’ve been down this road with other preamps and phono sections demanding premium quality 6sn7s and other tubes starting acouple of decades ago and while it was fun I’d sooner spend money on power supply upgrades including high quality silver rca chassis inputs if I was looking to improve sound quality.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:38 am 
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Posts: 155
Location: Waterloo, ON, CA
Fm-Bunny wrote:
I’ve been down this road with other preamps and phono sections demanding premium quality 6sn7s and other tubes starting acouple of decades ago and while it was fun I’d sooner spend money on power supply upgrades including high quality silver rca chassis inputs if I was looking to improve sound quality.


Great point. Buying vintage tubes is fun but it can be an expensive and ultimately disappointing experience. I recommend purchasing vintage tubes from an expert. Try Andy at Vintage Tube Services or Brent Jessie. You might pay a little extra but you will get tubes that are more or less sure things.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:02 am 
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Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 5:12 pm
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Location: Peachland, BC, CA
Fm-Bunny wrote:
347strokin wrote:
Hey guys,

I'm awaiting a Linear Tube Audio MZ2 tube pre/integrated/headphone amp.

After a lot of research and great reviews, I pulled the trigger. This unit will allow me to use it as a pre or as an integrated amp for my Tekton DI's freeing up my Line Mag to power a second system when desired. Would also be nice to run some headphones at certain times. From what I understand the MZ2 can run either the 6sn7 or 12sn7 tubes using a jumper. I believe the 12sn7 tubes are cheaper and much more plentiful.

Anyways, I don't have a huge amount of tube rolling experience and most of my research has always been on the power tube end of things.

My questions:

1) Are there any output differences between the 6sn7 and 12sn7 tubes? Does one style have certain sonic characteristics over the other or put out more power?

2) What is the difference between a 12sn7 and a 12at7 tube?

Thank you!

I haven’t gotten around to any tube rolling with my MZ2 S though I ordered the preamp with LTAs nos offering for 12sn7 & 12at7 including LTAs premium DC cable from the power supply too the preamp .

Though I have purchased other nos tubes prior to receiving the preamp , Red Line Bendix 12sn7s including a nice pair of early 1950s black plate RCA 12at7s however I’m going to leave good enough alone for now because I’m thourally enjoying what I’m hearing .

I’ve been down this road with other preamps and phono sections demanding premium quality 6sn7s and other tubes starting acouple of decades ago and while it was fun I’d sooner spend money on power supply upgrades including high quality silver rca chassis inputs if I was looking to improve sound quality.


That's so great to hear, if you don't mind me asking, are you running it as a pre or integrated?

_________________
Amp: Line Magnetic 508
Pre amp: LTA MZ2
DAC: Chord 2Qute
Turntable: Rega RP1 w/ Rega Fono Mini A2D
CD Player: NAD 517
Speakers: Coming soon...Audio Note Kit 03


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:43 am
Posts: 796
Location: Stratford, ON, CA
Hi,

Dan Santorini wrote:,'True, it will do no harm, but they may not work.'

No harm was my objective. I like to encourage people to experiment around rather than believing that 'professionals and experts'
always know better. Audio is so full of wacky unscientific mythologies and other b*ll-sh*t that people on CAM need to be encouraged to actually 'try stuff'.

Cheers,
David Neice

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:29 pm
Posts: 53
Location: Orillia, ON, CA
347strokin wrote:
Fm-Bunny wrote:
347strokin wrote:
Hey guys,

I'm awaiting a Linear Tube Audio MZ2 tube pre/integrated/headphone amp.

After a lot of research and great reviews, I pulled the trigger. This unit will allow me to use it as a pre or as an integrated amp for my Tekton DI's freeing up my Line Mag to power a second system when desired. Would also be nice to run some headphones at certain times. From what I understand the MZ2 can run either the 6sn7 or 12sn7 tubes using a jumper. I believe the 12sn7 tubes are cheaper and much more plentiful.

Anyways, I don't have a huge amount of tube rolling experience and most of my research has always been on the power tube end of things.

My questions:

1) Are there any output differences between the 6sn7 and 12sn7 tubes? Does one style have certain sonic characteristics over the other or put out more power?

2) What is the difference between a 12sn7 and a 12at7 tube?

Thank you!

I haven’t gotten around to any tube rolling with my MZ2 S though I ordered the preamp with LTAs nos offering for 12sn7 & 12at7 including LTAs premium DC cable from the power supply too the preamp .

Though I have purchased other nos tubes prior to receiving the preamp , Red Line Bendix 12sn7s including a nice pair of early 1950s black plate RCA 12at7s however I’m going to leave good enough alone for now because I’m thourally enjoying what I’m hearing .

I’ve been down this road with other preamps and phono sections demanding premium quality 6sn7s and other tubes starting acouple of decades ago and while it was fun I’d sooner spend money on power supply upgrades including high quality silver rca chassis inputs if I was looking to improve sound quality.


That's so great to hear, if you don't mind me asking, are you running it as a pre or integrated?

Currently I’m using the MZ2S to drive headphones, ZMFs Eikon along with PS Audio Direct Stream Memory Player and Wyred4sound 2V2 SE Dac , Love it however at some point I plan to purchase some high efficiency speakers and plans for building my own cabinets for the fun of it ,.I once owed David Bernings Siegfried amps years ago and once I saw LTA offering Bernings design I didn’t hesitate buying their MZ2S, the guy is brilliant.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:48 am 
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Location: Peachland, BC, CA
Fm-Bunny wrote:


That's so great to hear, if you don't mind me asking, are you running it as a pre or integrated?

Currently I’m using the MZ2S to drive headphones, ZMFs Eikon along with PS Audio Direct Stream Memory Player and Wyred4sound 2V2 SE Dac , Love it however at some point I plan to purchase some high efficiency speakers and plans for building my own cabinets for the fun of it ,.I once owed David Bernings Siegfried amps years ago and once I saw LTA offering Bernings design I didn’t hesitate buying their MZ2S, the guy is brilliant.[/quote]

Beauty! And it would be a blast building your own speakers. I'm good with metal but no so good with wood. Lol

_________________
Amp: Line Magnetic 508
Pre amp: LTA MZ2
DAC: Chord 2Qute
Turntable: Rega RP1 w/ Rega Fono Mini A2D
CD Player: NAD 517
Speakers: Coming soon...Audio Note Kit 03


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