Canuck Audio Mart Hifi and Audio ForumCanuck Audio Mart Hifi and Audio Forum
It is currently Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:08 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 57 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:10 am
Posts: 1529
Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Gold Lion reissue. All hype?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:17 am
Posts: 990
Location: St. John's, NL, CA
Buy from your fellow Cam member. I've bought vintage tubes from Steve with no problem. Check his feedback and you'll see he has a solid reputation dealing in non-current production tubes. Here's what you're really after:
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/ ... amp-tubes/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:17 pm
Posts: 365
Location: Delta, BC, CA
dmitchell wrote:
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Gold Lion reissue. All hype?

Me and Binky brought them up..good tubes.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:14 am
Posts: 1479
Location: St.Catharines, ON, CA
With out going through my entire journey of 12ax7 tubes here are my thoughts.

Joes tube lore makes me crazy because I have found that some times the descriptions of tubes don't match your perception of how they sound in your circuit.

I have not tried as many new production 12ax7's as NOS but my over all experience tells me that NOS will in almost all cases beat them...I have tried EAT (new production) at $450 a pair,Psvanes,Genelex,JJ's...

Audiophiles spend some absurd cash on cables yet they can't buy a pair of NOS tubes some times as cheap as $100/pair.IMO a tube has so much more to offer than any cable...

No body can tell you how YOU hear a brand of tubes in YOUR system but recommendations are always possible.You never once mentioned how your system sounds to YOU and in what direction you would like to take it...In most cases with a quality NOS tube I hear a layer of grain taken away over a new production tube..However they can very greatly in extension, tone,bass tightness, etc..For $100 a pair right now on CAM you can get a nice pair of NOS tubes..

_________________
Too much music not enough time..


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:16 pm
Posts: 1034
Location: Georgetown, ON, CA
Hi Itsnotluck,
It would seem to me that finding a source of currently manufactured tubes that are very consistent would be very important. For my service work, I generally have clients buy their own tubes because they can have some funny ideas about why a tube is good.

Do you like RCA tubes? If so, then the Electroharmonix tubes are those. With modern manufacturing in Russia, the overall quality is more consistent and they are much quieter than many NOS tubes I've heard. Try some (I don't sell them, so I'm not looking for business). Given how much they sell for, if you like them you've saved thousands in future dollars.

-Chris


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:55 am
Posts: 341
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
anatech wrote:
Hi Itsnotluck,
It would seem to me that finding a source of currently manufactured tubes that are very consistent would be very important. For my service work, I generally have clients buy their own tubes because they can have some funny ideas about why a tube is good.

Do you like RCA tubes? If so, then the Electroharmonix tubes are those. With modern manufacturing in Russia, the overall quality is more consistent and they are much quieter than many NOS tubes I've heard. Try some (I don't sell them, so I'm not looking for business). Given how much they sell for, if you like them you've saved thousands in future dollars.

-Chris

The EH tubes currently made in Russia are the same tubes as NOS RCA tubes made in the 1960s? Quality is more consistent in current production tubes made in Russia than NOS tubes made in the USA or Western Europe? People can save thousands by using EH tubes instead of NOS?
Hard to take you seriously after making the above claims.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:36 am
Posts: 620
Location: St Catharines, ON, CA
P.S vane treasures2 followed by Gold Lion gold pins as #2.
Aaron


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:16 pm
Posts: 1034
Location: Georgetown, ON, CA
Hi MENDEL24,
Why would that be? I've had a long experience with the NOS tubes in the late 60's and through the 70's. In the 80's I had to make do with whatever NOS stuff I could get, then New Sensor came up with the Sovtek tubes. They were Russian tubes marked with the closest North American numbers, they weren't exact replacements. One thing that was great about the Sovtek line was how they maintained tube characteristics. They had their manufacturing processes well under control. Compared to Richardson tubes, they were far superior, but NOS tubes at that time were the exact tubes and did easily perform better because the circuits here were designed for them, not the Sovtek line.

Once I became familiar with the new Electroharmonix line, I switched to them, and over the years have had exactly two bad tubes. High noise in both. That could have been due to rough handling. Talking with New Sensor, I found out that the Electroharmonix branded tubes were reverse engineered from what they considered were the best tubes made. RCA was selected as the tube to copy for most of that line, and the 12AX7 was a direct copy of the RCA 12AX7A.

Many years down the line I have been really impressed how close they kept the parameter spread and the noise down. These are characteristics of an excellent production line. I've been told that the newer brand names were reverse engineered from the respective brands they are labelled with.

So I have used NOS tubes of every kind (and have a large stock of them to compare with), and many years to have become very familiar with them. I've had many years to evaluate the Electroharmonix tubes as well. So while my views on this may be unpopular with some who are invested in NOS tube land, they are my honest feelings from years of direct observation. What tubes do I use in my own gear? Electroharmonix, and anyone who knows me can back that up.

I guess maybe these tubes are too inexpensive to be good for some folks out there. But, they are and they are current manufacture. The Russian tube factories are light years ahead of anything we have here, and that might be an unpopular concept as well. Get over it, they have been continuously manufacturing tubes since they started. Of course they will have better processes and raw materials. To think otherwise just doesn't make any sense.

Now the big question. Have you tried these tubes in equipment that was designed in the tube era that have been restored? I have, and often. The problem with new equipment is that current designers don't seem to be as talented as engineers of yesterday. A few might be now. But the new designs are probably centered around tubes that were not on spec. In my Fisher 400 preamp, and Eico HF-85 preamp, these tubes work exactly as NOS tubes do. Same sound, same gain and a little lower measured noise.

Originally I thought as you do. A few years experience taught me otherwise.

-Chris


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:47 am
Posts: 3838
Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
At the risk of jumping into this
re issue Tung Sol, EH and Gold Lion 12ax7's are all made in the
Xpo-Pul factory (also known as Reflektor) in Saratov, Russia.

In my experience, they are a reliable tube - which is why audio manufactures install them in new amps.
I use them as a reference to compare vintage tubes to.

However, in terms of sonics, in my experience a Refleckor made 6dj8 and 12ax7
can not even come close to a vintage Amperex or Siemens tube.

As for spec's - from the only graph I've been able to find concerning transconductance,
gm drops about 10% after the first 10% of a tube's life.
There after, gm remains a flat line until the the last 10% of the tube's life.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:16 pm
Posts: 1034
Location: Georgetown, ON, CA
Hi Uunderhill,
Yes, exactly. Same plant but different products.

-Chris


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:47 am
Posts: 3838
Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
dmitchell wrote:
Time for a replacement for my trusty and much loved Finale F-138 amp. What's your favourite current run 12AX7? I usually buy from thetubestore.com if that cuts down on choices.


Nicely made amp - tubes and transformers on one side - passive components on the other.

Anatech is right that many new tube designs are poorly layed out
with tubes sitting right beside passive components - Kinda like an easy bake oven.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:35 pm 
Offline
Premium User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:44 pm
Posts: 6146
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
There is a Shuguang Custom 12AX7 LS Super Tube Special Edition (pair, low noise, triple mica, Black bottle) being offered right now on the Grant Fidelity website for a special introductory price of US $99.00...

http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/store/p ... iple-mica/

_________________
I Put A Spell On You!!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:20 pm
Posts: 2233
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
anatech wrote:
Hi MENDEL24,
Why would that be? I've had a long experience with the NOS tubes in the late 60's and through the 70's. In the 80's I had to make do with whatever NOS stuff I could get, then New Sensor came up with the Sovtek tubes. They were Russian tubes marked with the closest North American numbers, they weren't exact replacements. One thing that was great about the Sovtek line was how they maintained tube characteristics. They had their manufacturing processes well under control. Compared to Richardson tubes, they were far superior, but NOS tubes at that time were the exact tubes and did easily perform better because the circuits here were designed for them, not the Sovtek line.

Once I became familiar with the new Electroharmonix line, I switched to them, and over the years have had exactly two bad tubes. High noise in both. That could have been due to rough handling. Talking with New Sensor, I found out that the Electroharmonix branded tubes were reverse engineered from what they considered were the best tubes made. RCA was selected as the tube to copy for most of that line, and the 12AX7 was a direct copy of the RCA 12AX7A.

Many years down the line I have been really impressed how close they kept the parameter spread and the noise down. These are characteristics of an excellent production line. I've been told that the newer brand names were reverse engineered from the respective brands they are labelled with.

So I have used NOS tubes of every kind (and have a large stock of them to compare with), and many years to have become very familiar with them. I've had many years to evaluate the Electroharmonix tubes as well. So while my views on this may be unpopular with some who are invested in NOS tube land, they are my honest feelings from years of direct observation. What tubes do I use in my own gear? Electroharmonix, and anyone who knows me can back that up.

I guess maybe these tubes are too inexpensive to be good for some folks out there. But, they are and they are current manufacture. The Russian tube factories are light years ahead of anything we have here, and that might be an unpopular concept as well. Get over it, they have been continuously manufacturing tubes since they started. Of course they will have better processes and raw materials. To think otherwise just doesn't make any sense.

Now the big question. Have you tried these tubes in equipment that was designed in the tube era that have been restored? I have, and often. The problem with new equipment is that current designers don't seem to be as talented as engineers of yesterday. A few might be now. But the new designs are probably centered around tubes that were not on spec. In my Fisher 400 preamp, and Eico HF-85 preamp, these tubes work exactly as NOS tubes do. Same sound, same gain and a little lower measured noise.

Originally I thought as you do. A few years experience taught me otherwise.

-Chris


I may not have the extensive experiences or technical knowledge most of you have, but I share Chris's view on in-production 12AX7's. I have had various in-production 12AX7's on my pre, integrated, and power amplifiers (not counting the ones that I don't owe but have auditioned):

ARC SP8 (can't recall which versions it was)
ARC SP16 w/ built-in MM phono stage
Audio Note Kit 2
Bel Canto SET40
Cayin A50-T
VTL 5.5

Yes, this is a short list but I stand by my feelings on the performance of in-production 12AX7's that I have tried so far. I know this is not a popular view but I think these new tubes can hold their own against some NOS IMHO. I also have a few (expensive) NOS/OS that I am enjoying/have enjoyed, too, and I have my favorite(s) (e.g. Brimar CV4004 or a couple of Mullard's). But saying all in-production ones are junked by comparison is a bit too much. And I also stand by my opinion that tried as many in-production new tubes as you can to form an opinion and a baseline. These are often economical so you why not?

airdronian wrote:
That's interesting - when I bought my Cayin integrated it came with EH 12ax7 for some reason. The rest were house labelled and not bad at all.


A bit off topic but, no, mine didn't come with EH as far as I can remember (I got it in '07 so I could be wrong). The one I demo'ed in store had been retubed and the one I ordered had the original tubes from Cayin. I think I junked the original 12AX7's after I lived with them for a couple of days so I can't go and check exactly what they were. I actually ended up retubed everything to make this little integrated sing and it continues to.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:02 am
Posts: 1082
Location: Kingston, ON, CA
[quote="Voodoo Funk"]There is a Shuguang Custom 12AX7 LS Super Tube Special Edition (pair, low noise, triple mica, Black bottle) being offered right now on the Grant Fidelity website for a special introductory price of US $99.00.../quote]

Thanks for the heads up VF!

I am very impressed with the Psvane 12AX7-TII's from GF. I've ordered the Shuguang's!

_________________
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." (Aristotle, 384-322 BCE)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:02 pm 
Offline
Premium User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:44 pm
Posts: 6146
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
NordicNorm wrote:
Voodoo Funk wrote:
There is a Shuguang Custom 12AX7 LS Super Tube Special Edition (pair, low noise, triple mica, Black bottle) being offered right now on the Grant Fidelity website for a special introductory price of US $99.00...


Thanks for the heads up VF!

I am very impressed with the Psvane 12AX7-TII's from GF. I've ordered the Shuguang's!


:)

_________________
I Put A Spell On You!!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 57 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group