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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:03 pm 
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Location: Calgary, AB, CA
Need some advice...
Finally getting around to hooking up my Heathkit stack and can't figure out the tape loop on the AP-1615 preamp. "Tape out" seems self explanatory. However right beside it is "monitor" and to the left between the tuner and aux inputs is a "tape". Is the "monitor" the tape in? Is the "tape" the tape in? I'm assuming the "tape out" goes to the "input" on the AD-1305 EQ or AD-1304 Active Audio Processor. The "output" on either the EQ or sound processor would then come back to either the "tape" or "monitor" on the pre.
I can't get any combination to work.
Any advice?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:23 am 
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Location: hawkesbury, ON, CA
the out put of the heatkit goes into monitor, and the tape output of the pre amp, goes to the input of your heatkit. ounce plug you will need to ingage tape monitor botton on your pre amp to activate the equilizer.and disengage the botton, to defeat the eq.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:31 am 
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The tape out and monitor is your tape loop. The other tape is really an auxiliary circuit. I would recommend that you loop the expansion unit after the equaliser, but try it both ways. Don't put them between the pre out and amp in if you intend on using a tape recorder in the loop on one of those units.

BTW; I assume that you've turned the monitor switch on the pre on. The monitor switches have to be on except for the final one in the chain.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:33 pm 
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davinci_redux wrote:
The tape out and monitor is your tape loop. The other tape is really an auxiliary circuit. I would recommend that you loop the expansion unit after the equaliser, but try it both ways. Don't put them between the pre out and amp in if you intend on using a tape recorder in the loop on one of those units.

BTW; I assume that you've turned the monitor switch on the pre on. The monitor switches have to be on except for the final one in the chain.


Yes! That did the trick. I was assuming the tape input selector was the tape loop. It's tape monitor toggle. Doesn't matter what input when tape monitor toggle is engaged. Than you sir!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:27 pm 
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No prob. I've a bunch of old gear and tape machines around here, so it's old hat to me. BTW have a look around for the black Heathkit pro series....... seriously under-rated stuff. OTOH that 1640 isn't a slouch either!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:03 pm 
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Hi,

Just so we are clear. The reason you have three pairs of RCA tape sockets is because some of the better tape decks - mostly reel to reel but also a few cassette decks had three heads. One for playback and monitoring, one for recording and one for erasing tape. The three RCA sets allowed you to switch between the 'source'; say a vinyl album, and the independent playback/monitoring head and and thus you could directly compare the source signal and the tape recorded signal with the selector switch and with only a tiny delay of a fraction of a second. Less expensive decks had a joint record/playback head and it wasn't possible to both record and monitor the signal. Less expensive amps and receivers had RCA tape in and tape out sockets only.

Cheers,
David Neice

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:24 am 
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Quote:
Hi,

Just so we are clear. The reason you have three pairs of RCA tape sockets is because some of the better tape decks - mostly reel to reel but also a few cassette decks had three heads. One for playback and monitoring, one for recording and one for erasing tape. The three RCA sets allowed you to switch between the 'source'; say a vinyl album, and the independent playback/monitoring head and and thus you could directly compare the source signal and the tape recorded signal with the selector switch and with only a tiny delay of a fraction of a second. Less expensive decks had a joint record/playback head and it wasn't possible to both record and monitor the signal. Less expensive amps and receivers had RCA tape in and tape out sockets only.

Cheers,
David Neice


And what was that monitor switch on the "better" three head machines for? The older amps and receivers that I had that did have both a tape loop and a separate tape input, had them for one of two reasons. The first was that there were situations where you had a tape playback only machine, and the second where the amp/receiver actually had circuitry to boost/equalise the signal from the heads themselves. It certainly was possible to monitor the signal from a 2 head deck; .... but only the prerecorded signal, not the recorded signal. It had NOTHING to do with more or less expensive gear. Accuracy remains important, even with Wikepedia today.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:52 am 
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Hi,

davinci_redux is chastising me for innaccuracy.

Can we take his comments apart?

He wrote: 'And what was that monitor switch on the "better" three head machines for? '

Answer: If the monitor switch was 'on the tape machine', then was for monitoring the signal coming from a separate playback head on a triple head machine. But there were other tape decks that had 'tape in', 'tape out' and 'monitor out' solely as RCA jacks. Generally the 'outs and ins' on these decks were patched into mixing consoles rather than home hi-fi systems.

He further wrote: 'The older amps and receivers that I had did have both a tape loop and a separate tape input, (and) had them for one of two reasons. The first was that there were situations where you had a tape playback only machine, and the second where the amp/receiver actually had circuitry to boost/equalize the signal from the heads themselves.'

Comment: Correct. The tape loop circuit (out and in) allowed recording and playback while the 'tape input only' position found on the selector switch of some early pre-amps and receivers was there for processing signals from tape heads that did not have any equalization applied by the tape machine i.e. a signal coming straight off the playback head and therefore not pre-equalized.

And further he wrote:' It certainly was possible to monitor the signal from a 2 head deck; .... but only the prerecorded signal, not the recorded signal.'

Comment: True, but a three head deck allowed you to monitor the 'recorded signal' just a fraction of an instant after it was recorded. That's all I was trying to say, perhaps in a clumsy way.

And furthermore he wrote: 'It had NOTHING to do with more or less expensive gear. Accuracy remains important, even with Wikepedia today.'

Comment: I doubt that anyone would seriously dispute that three head machines were superior. The cost alone was about twice as much. Studios always used three head tape decks. I certainly agree that accuracy is important which is exactly why recording engineers wanted a separate record and playback head so they could directly compare the source signal and the signal they had just recorded.

Cheers,
David Neice

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