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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:47 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:43 pm
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Location: Sturgeon Falls, ON, CA
well for those of you who have these speakers and have the tweeters fail......Bao at centek in otttawa took on the challenge to rebuild these tweeters......rewound the voice coils and added a new shot of ferrofluid.......all i can say is WOW.....they are right back to factory resistance ,his knowledge and old school artisan hands can do anything i believe ........good for another 30 years........


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:49 pm 
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Location: cambridge, ON, CA
Good news and thanks for the information. Could you tell us how long the turnaround is,the cost and do you have an address?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:25 pm 
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Location: Sturgeon Falls, ON, CA
took him about one week for mine,the business is called Centek.....google it under audio repair ottawa and you'll get the entire website......he had to order special ferrofluid,which he said isn't available in canada anymore,however this guy has contacts EVERYWHERE......got it from a colleague he knows in california.......must say he did an amazing job,also checked the crossovers in my 22 reference connoisseurs and said they were amazingly build and were working perfect.......very happy with the outcome....best of luck!...M


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:46 pm 
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Thanks for the information. Luckily, I don't need his service at this time but this 22 tweeter question does come up from time to time and I'm sure it will be appreciated by those who will need it.
Are you happy with your 22's?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:57 pm 
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I just bought a pair of mint condition reference 22s (non-connoisseur) from the original owner, or so I was told at least. I had never heard them before I auditioned them (in his storage locker, by the way) but knew they had a good reputation and given their physical condition, I decided to bring them home. I like them, but not as much as my Veritas 2.3s. I'm wondering about the ferrofluid. As it dries up, does the sound quality slowly deteriorate or does it either function at 100% or not at all? Nothing has ever been repaired or replaced on the 22s according to the seller and there is nothing that would lead me to believe that there is anything wrong with them, but they just don't have the detail that the 2.3s do.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:06 pm 
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Location: Montreal, QC, CA
brendelac wrote:
I just bought a pair of mint condition reference 22s (non-connoisseur) from the original owner, or so I was told at least. I had never heard them before I auditioned them (in his storage locker, by the way) but knew they had a good reputation and given their physical condition, I decided to bring them home. I like them, but not as much as my Veritas 2.3s. I'm wondering about the ferrofluid. As it dries up, does the sound quality slowly deteriorate or does it either function at 100% or not at all? Nothing has ever been repaired or replaced on the 22s according to the seller and there is nothing that would lead me to believe that there is anything wrong with them, but they just don't have the detail that the 2.3s do.


Drying up ferrofluid is a very slow and almost undetectable process (it happens over years). What happens is that the ferrofluid becomes gummy, impeding the movement of the voice coil in the magnetic gap, which in turn gradually dulls the sound and eventually overheats the voice coil, suddenly burning it out. Refreshing the ferrofluid should, in theory, dramatically restore the original sound.

Think about the motor oil in your car. If not changed, it thickens up to a tar-like mess and stops lubricating your engine at which point it seizes and destroys the engine's moving parts. Caught in time, before the oil deteriorates to the point it stops lubricating, your engine can probably be saved or at least have its useful life extended significantly.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:33 am 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Having said that....the 22s should NOT sound better than the Veritas 2.3, period. They are also 30 years old. They are a nice speaker but any good $1000 modern speaker will have superior clarity, sweetness, imaging, sound stage, you name it.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:16 am 
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Location: Barrie, ON, CA
shortcuttomoncton wrote:
Having said that....the 22s should NOT sound better than the Veritas 2.3, period. They are also 30 years old. They are a nice speaker but any good $1000 modern speaker will have superior clarity, sweetness, imaging, sound stage, you name it.


Modernity at its finest.

Marc mc


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:43 am 
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Location: GTA, ON, CA
shortcuttomoncton wrote:
Having said that....the 22s should NOT sound better than the Veritas 2.3, period. They are also 30 years old. They are a nice speaker but any good $1000 modern speaker will have superior clarity, sweetness, imaging, sound stage, you name it.


I would like to hear some properly working Energy 22's some day.

Their specs (and I imagine they are accurate since there was quite a bit of R & D put into them) are still remarkable to me even if they are 30 years old;

- 1.5 kHz crossover point (so, crossover point put lower than usual as to not have it in the range where the human ear is most sensitive)
- 30 degree off-axis (!!!) response 28 - 28 kHz @ +/- 2 dB (!!!)

BTW, I still use speakers that are over 30 years old (Quad ESL 63, K-Horns, Dayton Wright XG 10 ESL's) and modern ones (Kef LS50) - I am open to the fact that 30 year old audio equipment can be quite good (being built with less compromises).


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:51 am 
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Location: cambridge, ON, CA
Hey Greg, I believe that I have a pair of properly working Ref Conn 22's. I purchased from Dave Fazakas, who is well versed on the "22". Mine were completely updated and I have been quite happy with them, but... I Have listened to different types of speakers ie open baffle,horn,crossover less etc.,and they all have their strong points that I wish the 22's had. But that,I suppose is the hard part.
Dave has already mentioned in similar posts,that the Dayton Audio silk tweeter would be a fine replacement for a toasted 22 tweeter etc., so modern technology would no doubt be of help. In the meantime, I'll just enjoy what I have and listen to the music.
Btw,if you are ever down Cambridge way,you're welcome to stop by for a listen.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:36 am 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
marc mc wrote:
shortcuttomoncton wrote:
Having said that....the 22s should NOT sound better than the Veritas 2.3, period. They are also 30 years old. They are a nice speaker but any good $1000 modern speaker will have superior clarity, sweetness, imaging, sound stage, you name it.


Modernity at its finest.

Marc mc

Hey, as we have discussed in the past, I own Ref Cons, with brand-new rebuilt tweeters. I love them. But I have put them directly up against well-regarded modern speakers like the Audio Monitor 6 series.....side by side in my listening room, same equipment....and it was pretty clear that other than phenomenal bass response/kick from the 22s' woofers, they are a touch below the MAs in the above characteristics. (In particular detail and imaging.)

But I did keep the Ref Cons. For me right now, the simplicity of not having to deal with a sub is worth what I give up on the other end. I sold my Gallo Ref 3s and slowly saving up for 3.5s....hopefully the Ref Cons will look pretty as rear surrounds one day. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:02 pm 
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Location: Sturgeon Falls, ON, CA
Thanks for the information. Luckily, I don't need his service at this time but this 22 tweeter question does come up from time to time and I'm sure it will be appreciated by those who will need it.
Are you happy with your 22's?

yes i am quite happy with them.....i have several pairs of totem speakers ,to mention a few the model 1 signatures,and hawks,i enjoy them as well,but after careful listening,i hear things in music that the totems didn't reveal,so that is always exciting......i also notice my simaudio moon W5.3 SE is working driving those old energy's.......quite surprised actually since they are a 8 ohm load,but they are less efficient than any of my totems


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:05 am 
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Location: Sturgeon Falls, ON, CA
Can anyone give me some insight or pictures of how the insulation is layed out in the 22 reference connoisseurs ??? Thanks in advance ...M


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:35 am 
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Location: cambridge, ON, CA
I found a few pictures on the web,this one of a 22 ref conn that shows the cabinet to be well stuffed. I know that it's the same behind the woofer but I can't say exactly how well the area below the woofer towords the stand and tuned port area,are stuffed. The pair I own are not as stuffed in the stand area,but,do have a good amount nonetheless.
A word of advice,do not install the foam trim ring covers until you are satisfied with your final result. They are fragile and I am not sure of where to find new ones.
Good luck.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:48 pm 
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Location: Sturgeon Falls, ON, CA
Thank you joe .... Do you recall if the woofer section has insulation right behind the woofer ( not pushed back over the crossover) the reason I'm curious here is I recently had the tweeters rebuild and crossovers checked now IT may be just my ears fooling me , but they seem to lack a bit if bass , maybe it's just my brain playing tricks in me , but my brother had a set being driven with a Bryston 4b sst2 and IT seems to have a bit more bass. Mine are being driven by a sim audio moon W5.3 SE , which doubles to 300 watts in 4 ohms. So I'm thinking the insulation wasn't installed correctly in the woofer cavity or it's the room, their in a second floor bedroom with hardwood floors no mat whatsoever there also along the wall where the roof is so at approx 6' the wall is on a 45 degree angle ..... Thanks ... M


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