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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:19 am 
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Location: Fergus, ON, CA
I have a pair of Paradigm Reference Studio 60 speaker that I received without tweeters.
I have a pair of tweets that should be suitable drop ins.
BUT the wires in the speakers are a solid blue and a black/blue.
The wires on the tweeters are yellow and a white.
Any ideas as to which should go to which?
I have a 50/50 chance of getting it right...but also a 50/50 on getting it wrong.
My gut says the black/blue to white but I've seen enough movies of bomb disposal guys cutting the red wire and things went very badly...I don't want to be that guy.
Ineptly yours. :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 12:27 pm 
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Location: St.Catharines, ON, CA
Polarity should be marked on crossover board.

Gary


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 12:39 pm 
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Was hoping I didn't have to take everything apart as I believe the Xovers are down deep in these.
Time to dig.
Oh well, no biggie.
Thnx Gary...the pic you added will be helpful.

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 1:10 pm 
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Location: Richmond Hill, ON, CA
I use jumpers to try them.
Crossovers often rotate the polarity if the signal, so the tweeters ends up wired in "reverse."
If they are wired correctly, the sound will integrate nicely. If they are out of phase, it sounds wrong.
I get my head very close to the speakers, with my head sideways, so the line through my ears is parallel to the line through the speakers. With jumpers, it is easy to switch back and forth, before making permanent connections and mounting the drivers.

Cheers,
Alec


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 2:23 pm 
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Location: Regina, SK, CA
Which tweeters are you using as replacements?

I'm 99% they should be wired with positive polarity. Assuming this the blue/black wire should go to the tweeter negative.

Quick way to double check the connection polarity is to battery bump them. Install the tweeter. Remove the gold jumper bars on the crossover terminal cup. Connect a couple test leads to the input positive and input negative on the tweeter section of the crossover. Take a brand new 1.5 volt AA alkaline battery (NOT any type of rechargeable) and hold the wire connected to the negative input on the crossover to the negative terminal on the battery. Now look very closely at the tweeter dome while you tap and hold the positive wire to the positive terminal of the battery. You may have to touch and hold the wire to the battery for a couple sec then release and repeat until your eye can catch the very very small movement of the dome. If the tweeter is wired with positive polarity the dome will look like its moving outward. If the dome appears to move inward then reverse the wiring on the tweeter and try again.

Don't worry about hurting or burning out the tweeter. A single AA does not have enough current to damage the voicecoil and the tweeter's crossover further reduces the amount of power put to the coil. Just be sure to use an alkaline and not a nicad or nimh battery as they are capable of far more current.


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 2:27 pm 
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Location: Regina, SK, CA
3 steps
Determine the internal lead polarity by connecting a digital voltmeter set to circuit test (tone). If analog meter, just watch the needle. Test from negative post to tweeter lead. One will indicate which is neg. the positive proabably wont't allow a test signal to flow.
If your tweeter cone can be seen, you can apply a AAA battery momentarily. You might see the cone retract or push. The negative connection should get you a pull back. May not apply to domes as the movement is so small.

This should align your neg and positive, but then you need to know if the speaker design was to have the tweeter installed neg to neg or neg to positive. For this, you will need to find out from the manufacturer, who has a tech question page on their web. Googling this wil tell you some designs use reverse polarity. Your ears may tell you if you know the source test music well enough.

Or a helpful owner of same VERSION of your speaks can phyically tell you which way they are installed.

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 2:29 pm 
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Location: Montreal, QC, CA
Deant wrote:
Which tweeters are you using as replacements?

I'm 99% they should be wired with positive polarity. Assuming this the blue/black wire should go to the tweeter negative.

Quick way to double check the connection polarity is to battery bump them. Install the tweeter. Remove the gold jumper bars on the crossover terminal cup. Connect a couple test leads to the input positive and input negative on the tweeter section of the crossover. Take a brand new 1.5 volt AA alkaline battery (NOT any type of rechargeable) and hold the wire connected to the negative input on the crossover to the negative terminal on the battery. Now look very closely at the tweeter dome while you tap and hold the positive wire to the positive terminal of the battery. You may have to touch and hold the wire to the battery for a couple sec then release and repeat until your eye can catch the very very small movement of the dome. If the tweeter is wired with positive polarity the dome will look like its moving outward. If the dome appears to move inward then reverse the wiring on the tweeter and try again.

Don't worry about hurting or burning out the tweeter. A single AA does not have enough current to damage the voicecoil and the tweeter's crossover further reduces the amount of power put to the coil. Just be sure to use an alkaline and not a nicad or nimh battery as they are capable of far more current.


Even better, use an AAA alcaline battery in stead of an AA as it has about half the current capability.


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 2:36 pm 
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Location: Fergus, ON, CA
Thanks for the direction guys.
I pulled the binding posts to view the Xover...the plastic crumbled.
Oh well...a little bit of plastic cement= reconstructive surgery.
Here's the tweeters going in.


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 4:24 pm 
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You might try to reinstall with a washer under screwhead to cover more area. Might take a bit longer screw, bit of black paint to make it less obvious. Make sure the underside of screwhead is flat, not angled.

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 6:01 pm 
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Sasklite wrote:
You might try to reinstall with a washer under screwhead to cover more area. Might take a bit longer screw, bit of black paint to make it less obvious. Make sure the underside of screwhead is flat, not angled.


Great idea

-- 09 May 2017 02:06 --

And for what it's worth...I will reinstall the binding post boxes upside down for easier cable installation.

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 6:32 pm 
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If you do the battery test, you might want to put a small strip of paper over the face of the tweeter, as a rule, you won't see the cone move, it's too small of a movement for the eyes to pick up, The battery test works very well on a woofer.

Try looking again at your tweeter, there might be a small red dot or a piece of paper glued on the side of the magnet near one of the connection, and this will indicate the positive side, or maybe a very small + and - opposite of each other connections.

As for the wires from the speakers, solid colour is positive and double colour negative.

For the battery, AAA = 1.5V, and the AA also = 1.5V, either battery will do. Don't use a 9V or any rechargeable battery.

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Last edited by moinau on Tue May 09, 2017 4:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 10:43 pm 
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It's very common for a tweeter to be wired in reverse polarity to the woofer because of asymmetric crossovers. So, it doesn't really matter if a battery shows you which leads are positive or negative unless you can also determine the same for the tweeters coming out. Then again, we have no idea how you determined these tweeters are "suitable" to the ones being replaced.


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 3:30 am 
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ngjockey wrote:
It's very common for a tweeter to be wired in reverse polarity to the woofer because of asymmetric crossovers. So, it doesn't really matter if a battery shows you which leads are positive or negative unless you can also determine the same for the tweeters coming out. Then again, we have no idea how you determined these tweeters are "suitable" to the ones being replaced.


Finding original tweeters for the Studio 60's is next to impossible plus my research seemed to make me think that they were the weak link in these speakers...why would I want originals then?
Then after trying to source something suitable...a few leads told me to look for the "Peerless rectangular" tweeters.
So...further research pointed to these and memory (what little I have left) told me that I had a set of these in a box somewhere. Low and behold I did...and here we is.

https://picclick.com/Peerless-Style-K01 ... 12481.html



Peerless Style K010DT Silk Dome Tweeter, Polk, ADS, Cizek, Others ...
https://picclick.com/Peerless-Style-K01 ... 63012481...
Cizek: Model 1, Model 2, Model 3, Model I, Model II, Model III Polk: Monitor 4, ... M & K: S-1, Satellite 1 Paradigm: Studio 20, 20 v.2, 40, 40 v.2, 60, 60 v.2, 80, 80 v.2, ... Product Details Peerless Style K010DT Replacement Silk Dome Tweeter ...

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 5:34 am 
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You mentioned that the replacement tweeters are the 'Peerless Style K010DT Silk Dome Tweeter'
The Peerless connectors are colour coded, Red = +, white = -

You mentioned on your first post that the wires connected on your tweeters are yellow and white, the wire coming from the red dot connector is your positive one, the other wire from the white dot connector, the negative.


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 8:22 am 
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I would still wire up the replacement tweeters and do a battery bump. Just because the wiring colors and markings on tweeter say everything is normal polarity it is not always so. When I replaced tweeters in a set of studio 40v3, I noticed a very odd thing. When the stock tweeter was measured without a crossover and using normal polarity, the measured phase data was starting below 0 deg. Measuring a Vifa D27 in the exact configuration had the measured phase starting above zero. The sneaky designer of the tweeter actually had the voice coils of the original tweeters wound the opposite way resulting in a tweeter with inverse phase when connected with normal polarity. This is why the wiring on the v3 at least has the tweeter appearing to be reverse polarity but in reality the phase is positive. Battery test on the v3 confirmed the dome would move outward when connected to the stock crossover.

One of the other posters mentioned the crossover slope may require the tweeter to run with reverse polarity. This is an absolute possibility. Without someone having knowledge of your exact speaker its hard to know for sure. My understanding of the studio line crossovers is they haven't changed greatly from one version to the next. Circuit topology for the Studio 40/60 was the pretty much the same only some values were different. This is what leads me to believe you are looking for a normal phase on the tweeter. Since you might be dealing with wonky wiring colours from the crossover and potential for different coil windings, battery bumping will tell you what phase the tweeter is running in no matter what colour wire is connected to where.

The only absolute way to know that you got the phase relationship between tweeter and mid correct is to do a frequency measurement.


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