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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 4:18 pm 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
A friend gave me a DAC board from a vintage Philips CD player, thought I might be interested...under one condition that I need build a DAC for him later on...

Yeah, it's a plain TDA1541 (no A, no S, no crowns...perfect for me! ;-) made in 1986...during the past years, I have heard/learned a lot about this DAC chip...this DAC chip and board is quite original. I would not suggest people to buy such a low spec chip(even though I don't really care about the specs that much), definitely not spend almost a DAC machine's money to buy this chip from eBay ... If you happen to have a friend like mine, or vintage CD player which has this DAC chip, probably can do a DAC after the player has done its duty...

I have built some DACs with various chips...Is there any difference between good or bad DAC? Yes. What's a good DAC anyway? Well, for starters, it should be good enough for you to lay back and listening all day without any uncomfortableness (unfortunately, some eBay DIY style DACs using most fashioned chips cannot even meet this "comfortable" standard)... and it should convey whatever from the source honestly.... actually, there is only one standard - you love it! That's how simple audiophile is, as long as you love it that's all that matters...

On the other hand, DAC chip is just a small part in the DAC machine...design, layout, parts are far more important than DAC chip alone. If someone say this DAC chip is warm sound or something, I bet someone can make a DAC with this chip with cold sound.

Enough said ... it will be a journey to collect info and find a suitable home for this chip...at lowest cost possible.


Attachments:
File comment: Philips CD player
650.jpg
650.jpg [ 254.19 KiB | Viewed 2102 times ]
File comment: chip made in 1986...the first version...
chip.jpg
chip.jpg [ 147.76 KiB | Viewed 2102 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 7:58 pm 
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Interesting, can you tell me anything in particular about a chip labelled S1?


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 4:09 am 
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My cd880 has an S1 chip 8)


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 5:02 am 
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rustee wrote:
Interesting, can you tell me anything in particular about a chip labelled S1?


S1 is after 1986...S means selected, it was printed later on after the chip was manufactured...Spec-wise, S1 is better than some versions...does that means S1 sounds better? Not really, it depends on many other things...anyway, don't overthink about it...if you already have S1, congrats and I'm happy for you, if not having it, IMO, not worth buying it at such a price...(since 2004, the price of this chip goes higher and higher...plus you don't want know how they remove the chip from board...;-(
The one I have is plain 1541, the first batch...that's why I said "original"...

So, candidate "homes" for the chip...


Attachments:
specs.jpg
specs.jpg [ 39 KiB | Viewed 1851 times ]
File comment: Option 1: plain simple board (for my plain simple chip;-)...good classic design...overall cost will be low...
simpleVersion.jpg
simpleVersion.jpg [ 122.59 KiB | Viewed 1851 times ]
File comment: Option 2: "Super power" Digi board...Digi board is separated from DAC board...support 384K, support XMOS, Amanero PnP...1ppm crystal...wow and pricy!
Digital Board.jpg
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File comment: Option 2: DAC board...
1541_Board.jpg
1541_Board.jpg [ 341.26 KiB | Viewed 1851 times ]
File comment: Option2: finished sample...
left_is_1541_DAC_board.jpg
left_is_1541_DAC_board.jpg [ 360.21 KiB | Viewed 1851 times ]
File comment: Option 3: hifidy 10 years...4 layer top quality PCB (a bit overkill?)...a bit pricy
hifidiy_10years.jpg
hifidiy_10years.jpg [ 89.75 KiB | Viewed 1851 times ]
File comment: option 3: hifidiy 10 years ..closer look
hifidiy_10years_2.jpg
hifidiy_10years_2.jpg [ 135.05 KiB | Viewed 1851 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 5:35 am 
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bolly wrote:
My cd880 has an S1 chip 8)

Yeah...your S1 is special...good one!


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 7:09 am 
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I don't understand, Frank....don't you already have a board from the Philips CDP? Have you compared this one to the boards you're considering? What are the differences, or why have you decided against using it?

Looking forward to what you come up with anyway. It'll be exceptional as usual, I'm sure. :)

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 7:14 am 
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Hi,

Frank Wang wrote and I edited: 'actually, there is only one audiophile standard - either you love it or you don't!

Wise words Frank - if only we could live by them.

Cheers,
David Neice

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 9:18 am 
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ripblade wrote:
I don't understand, Frank....don't you already have a board from the Philips CDP? Have you compared this one to the boards you're considering? What are the differences, or why have you decided against using it?

Looking forward to what you come up with anyway. It'll be exceptional as usual, I'm sure. :)


Well, it's doable...but I don't wanna...first off, it's old and rusty...plus I don't want use some of the chips such as M4804, prefer 1315H ...

I'm not trying to outperform something, building a DAC that could play is easy, building a good one is tricky (especially this old chip)...also, using some newer chips for future maint. purpose...


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 1:18 pm 
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Well a little info can go a long way, and/or you're a glutton for punishment...No, I won't be messing with my player, I have the best chip for the period it was built I guess, thanks.


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 4:17 pm 
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rustee wrote:
Well a little info can go a long way, and/or you're a glutton for punishment...No, I won't be messing with my player, I have the best chip for the period it was built I guess, thanks.


Yeah, yours is good for that period...as said many times, I'm not against some people loves this chip for whatever reason, but I'm NOT encouraging people to kill their CDP or spend a lot on this old chip...especially the price for this chip so *** , needless to say a lot of fakes/remarks...If my friend have not give me this board, I will not touch this chip...

"reinvent the wheel" giving up the original DAC board?...mine situation is a bit different...the board is in bad status, rusty...And from tech perspective, as a DAC, essential structure is digi in -> digi filter -> DAC ->analog output ...
- unfortunately, as the first batch of this chip in application, the digi in part is not good(specs & health), M4804 is sort of the ancestor of SAA7210... I plan to use TDA1315 instead...which has totally different package, doomed that I cannot use this board...
- digi filter part is SAA7220P/A which is ok...but not as good as B...so I will probably will go from A to B...and that's about it.


-----------------------------
About SAA7220P/A, B differences, refer to below link:
http://www.dutchaudioclassics.nl/type_d ... 20p_a_b_c/

To remove the chip from board, as I mentioned in another Marantz CD67 thread, I normally use solder-wick, suck clean the solder, and solder gun should not touch the pin longer than 2 seconds...solder gun temperature is the key, I usually only need roughly 1 second for 1 pin...
And when you are dealing with chips (including opamps), use a solder gun with ground to avoid killing the chip...


Attachments:
File comment: remove chip from board...in progress..
desolder.jpg
desolder.jpg [ 498.95 KiB | Viewed 1635 times ]
File comment: Chip removed from board...
desolder_done.jpg
desolder_done.jpg [ 382.41 KiB | Viewed 1635 times ]
File comment: clean up the legs...and put it into sockets...
add_feet.jpg
add_feet.jpg [ 294.21 KiB | Viewed 1635 times ]
File comment: digi filter chip and DAC chip...
2_chips.jpg
2_chips.jpg [ 280.96 KiB | Viewed 1635 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 8:16 pm 
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I liked that chip...that is why I had Marantz CD7 and I still have the MS Prism.....somewhere under my bed....time to pull it out I guess....


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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 11:43 am 
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libor wrote:
I liked that chip...that is why I had Marantz CD7 and I still have the MS Prism.....somewhere under my bed....time to pull it out I guess....


CD7 is really a beauty! Back then Marantz was owned by Philips...great team;-)
Note that some chips are very "infamous and cheap", Marantz still can make beautiful sound out of them...that's the power of these brands...after all chip is just a chip, only sit in a small corner of the system...

--------------
I'm not anti-brands, I have some brands machines but I still love DIY, build or restore, and what DIY really benefits me is a new perspective to enjoy those brands...
-DIY building is the same simple fun like my kids playing building blocks...e.g. my desktop system is a DIY Ess9018 chip DAC + Amanero + Raspberry Pi 3B (Runeaudio)...
-Restoring brand machines is another story...it's actually more fun - like having conversations with the designers, why chassis ground here? why use this particular part/model at this place and such...very interesting and informative ...


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 9:36 am 
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Below is my ESS9018 DAC...the final version after many times tuning...
In the end, put a MKP 4.7uf as digi input coupling cap...much better bass than previous silver mica (0.1uf), and Murata C0G 0.1uf...

------------------------------------
For TA1541 in this thread, reminiscence more than being practical, will not pick an expensive kit...try to keep the total cost under $200....as no matter what to do with it, can't compete with modern DAC chips...


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Done.jpg
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:25 am 
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Got the PCB and some chips...still thinking & planning the parts...unfortunately very busy at work recently...

Basically, for caps, will play with some combinations:
-SMT(digital part) caps, C0G, X7R Murata caps...for sure;
-Digital PS/decoupling:
1. Rubycon MCZ + ZLH...best specs, not sure if best sound
2. Philips/Vishay 021 + ...
3. Panasonic FC + FM;
-Analog PS/Decoupling:
1. Panasonic FC + FM;
2. Panasonic M + FM;
3. Elana + Elna ....
4. Some caps + Nichicon KZ...

about 14 caps around 1541:
- Murata C0G might be the best choice;
- WIMA MKP2 also should be very good;
- Philips MKT370 also a good choice...

Resistors:
-LPF, signal path got to be low ppm ...

Hope I could have time to play this soon...


Attachments:
File comment: PCB front
IMG_0991.jpg
IMG_0991.jpg [ 287.16 KiB | Viewed 1321 times ]
File comment: PCB back
IMG_0992.jpg
IMG_0992.jpg [ 181.87 KiB | Viewed 1321 times ]
File comment: SAA7220 & TDA1315
IMG_0990.jpg
IMG_0990.jpg [ 228.79 KiB | Viewed 1321 times ]
File comment: Some SMT parts...
IMG_0993.jpg
IMG_0993.jpg [ 208.18 KiB | Viewed 1321 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:54 am 
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cool thread Frank Wang! here is my new old DAC chip


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myS2chip.jpg
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