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Feedback for dealers regarding experience OUTSIDE of CAM must go in the Dealer Feedback Forum.



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:43 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Hello,

I'm a relatively new member and am seeking some advice here on a situation.

I recently purchased an amplifier from a member off the classifieds.

I had heard the amp before so I knew what I was getting sonically speaking. Due to personal arrangements, I was house-sitting for a friend when the seller was available for a meetup so I did not have any of my equipment to test the amp. Given that I didn't need to audition the amp, I thought it would be fine not to try out the amplifier first, on the assumption that the seller had rated it as a 10 so it would be functioning fine. To the seller's credit, he did give me every opportunity to try it out at the the meetup but again as I was not at my own apartment, I declined.

Once I was able to hook up the amp to my equipment, I noticed an issue where turning the volume down past around 10 00 clock would result in the left channel properly reducing volume down to zero, but that the right channel would stop going down in volume and just stay at the 10 00 clock volume level even at the zero volume position. Turning the knob back to around 10 00 clock will cause the left channel to come back in and the channels to equalize, and then turning the volume up past that everything works fine.

When I mentioned this to the seller after the fact, he told me that he had never noticed anything wrong (he adjusted volume from the source and apparently never used the volume dial) and that it was working fine for him and that I was sold the amp as is so he would not issue a refund.

At this stage I had chalked this up to my own foolish mistake to not test the thing and wasn't going to press too much further.

However, while googling the issue, I found posts by the seller on another forum identifying the problem with this very amp and asking for assistance, meaning that the seller very well knew about this. When I mentioned it to the seller again, he stated that it was simply channel imbalance and a non issue. However, I have heard channel imbalance, and this is well beyond standard low volume imbalance. I've also heard a functioning version of this amp and it is not supposed to this. If you plug in a source with no source control like a turntable into the phono input, the minimum volume to get equal balance is considerably above regular listening levels. In addition, it is noticeable enough of an issue that the seller himself clearly identified this as an issue in this other forum.

When I contacted the seller stating that I didn't feel he'd been totally upfront in his listing, I was again told that he would not be issuing a refund. He has offer edto help facilitate a warranty repair; however, at this point it seems like a fair amount of hassle for what was in my opinion not a 100% honest listing.

While I understand that the knock on me here is that I absolutely should have tested the thing myself, at the same time I opted not to in good faith that the listing was upfront and honest.

I'm not sure what the best path forward here is at this point, any advice is appreciated.

Thanks,

K.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:51 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:32 pm
Posts: 375
Location: winnipeg, MB, CA
You've discussed the issue with the seller and received a response. You have found proof online that the seller knew about the issue and did not disclose it. Since the seller was looking for information online in regards to the problem it stands to reason the problem bothered the seller.
You already have your answer.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:00 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:06 pm
Posts: 4866
Location: Montreal, QC, CA
Feedback is an essential part of dealing at CAM.

Feedback should be as brief and factual as possible, while still doing justice to the user's experience. Buyers and sellers should be noted on their performance.

For instance, for a buyer, were communications timely and clear, were promises kept, was payment made in convenient form or as requested in the ad, were questions asked before closing the deal ?

For a seller, was the item accurately described, was it shipped without delay, was the specified carrier used, was packing adequate ? If things go wrong, was the seller ready to go to bat for the buyer with the shipping company ? ( Carriers do require the shipper to make any claims. )

@OP, my advice would be to accept the seller's offer to undertake a warranty claim.

You cannot force a seller to do the right thing. You can only let him know the facts, and either ask him for a suggestion on how to proceed, or make that suggestion yourself. If no acceptable option is found, negative feedback may unfortunately be the result.

But in many cases, buyers and sellers can manage to find a solution by working together. This is in everyone's interest. A negative can taint a seller's reputation to the point they have a hard time making further sales. And no buyer wants to be in a situation where a negative is the only option.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:10 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:55 am
Posts: 2580
Location: iii, ON, CA
Of course, a negative given results in a negative received.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:15 pm 
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Posts: 1341
Location: Manilla, ON, CA
Close to the Edge wrote:
Of course, a negative given results in a negative received.


Why if buyer is not at fault?

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even choose a side. Peter Gabriel


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:14 am
Posts: 1373
Location: St.Catharines, ON, CA
tubemannick wrote:
Close to the Edge wrote:
Of course, a negative given results in a negative received.


Why if buyer is not at fault?


How many people "eat it" in fear that they will get retaliatory feed back...

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Too much music not enough time..


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:29 pm 
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Location: Montreal, QC, CA
Nope.

Close to the Edge wrote:
Of course, a negative given results in a negative received.


The feedback system is not meant for tit-for-tat.

IOW, if I am not satisfied with a seller's performance, and I have tried to find a mutually satisfactory solution, negative feedback may be my only recourse. That feedback is not part of my performance as a buyer, and the seller has no business leaving feedback on it. Feedback is not given on feedback. Instead, there is a comment option for this.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:55 am
Posts: 2580
Location: iii, ON, CA
tubemannick wrote:
Close to the Edge wrote:
Of course, a negative given results in a negative received.


Why if buyer is not at fault?



Exactly why Ebay stopped sellers from leaving negative or neutral feedback a few years ago.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:38 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:40 pm
Posts: 408
Location: Markham, ON, CA
Hello All and good evening. If what you stated is true, then the seller is a LIAR, and a POS! Fats.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:05 pm
Posts: 53
Location: nanoose bay, BC, CA
A lot of sales are made on this site without the buyer not having the chance to test the item first , solely relying on the ethics and credibility of the seller . If a seller has intentionally misrepresented an item as being a 10 when it knowingly had functional problems that alone should be enough to warrant a feedback stating that , even if the seller try's to backtrack . He was clearly trying to see if he could get away with it . Offering to help with the repair still leaves the seller ahead as to what chance would he have had trying to sell a broken piece . Even with a full refund fact still remains he got caught trying to scam . Negative feedback is not a criminal record but it does help the rest of us to know who we're dealing with in the future . I would download a copy of his postings looking for a repair solution to be shown if it ends up in dispute with the moderators . Sorry to hear about your bad experience , all my dealings here with other members has been excellent . If you came home to a thief walking out your door with your tv and he says sorry and puts it back does that mean he's not a thief ?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:46 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:10 pm
Posts: 2929
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
^^^^
WORD!!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:48 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:43 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and inputs.

I'm a little unclear on the feedback system; if I leave a negative feedback, can the seller not just leave a corresponding negative feedback against me? Would there be a way for me to protest and dispute that?

In addition, if I leave a negative feedback but we come to some sort of agreement after the fact, am I able to remove that feedback after the fact?

If no resolution is reached, would it be poor form to post the user information and proof here just to make people aware? My intent is not to start a witch hunt or anything, but at the same time I think accountability is important.

My apologies for the inquiries.

Thanks for everyones time,

-K.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:14 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:31 am
Posts: 42
Location: Thorsby, AB, CA
Leave negative feedback to warn the honest members on here. Credibility and honesty is why we are members of this site. I know about the tit for tat game. if you should do so - this happened to me. But you can always provide an explanation on the negative feedback, and further disclose the dishonest seller. Furthermore, as an ex-cop I can tell you the fact that he was researching a known issue with the amp, would be enough to make a claim against him in small claims court, or have him charged with fraud under the Criminal Code.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:59 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:17 am
Posts: 986
Location: St. John's, NL, CA
That's what I was thinking. If you've got the documentation that indicates that the seller deliberately misrepresented the item, you might want to get some legal advice about the possibility of taking the guy to small claims court.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:45 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:55 am
Posts: 2580
Location: iii, ON, CA
Small claims court can give you a winning verdict but no one follows up to get you your money. A waste of time.I have won 3 cases over the last 30 years against unpaid bills and no one followed up and I have never received any money.


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