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Feedback for dealers regarding experience OUTSIDE of CAM must go in the Dealer Feedback Forum.



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:03 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:00 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Surrey, BC, CA
Negative Feedback – Crossroads

I do not recommend Crossroads as a seller at all. I recently purchased a used VPI HW 16.5 Record Cleaning Machine from him.

The unit was described as ‘9 – Excellent’
The email response from the seller also listed it as in excellent condition.

According to the Canuck Audio Mart Grading Scale,
‘Excellent Condition’ is:
9/10: Excellent - Perfect physical condition, light use.
The item should be a one-owner or store-demo piece to qualify for a 9/10, though some exceptions will exist. The item should appear as new unless a very close inspection is performed, as described below.

High resolution photos of the record cleaning machine are available here:
http://parkhurst.zenfolio.com/p378545367

When I unboxed the unit I noticed right away that the top was clean and shiny but that there was considerable damage on the lower part of the unit and on the bottom. The sides had splitting on the corners, and that when the bottom was removed, one of the screws required very little turning before falling out and onto my work bench. The MDF pieces were swollen and some had mould on them as well as staining.

After the dispute started as to the condition of the unit, I requested a local VPI dealer to look at the high resolution photos I had taken and give his opinion of the unit.

(I had no worries about him trying to sell me one that he had in stock as he did not have any in stock and in fact had been waiting weeks for 10-12 new units to come in that had been pre-sold. He also had just sold me a new VPI Classic 1 with Dynavector 20X2 and a Musical Surroundings Phenomena II phono stage).

The dealer’s response was:
“The 16.5 doesn’t look too good. The front red switch suggests that it’s an old model. At least 10 year old, and the damage was mainly from a burst water tank.
I’m sure VPI probably has fixed it, but you really don’t know if the water has damaged anything else. If the seller didn’t tell you about the damage; I would return it.
A used 16.5 is usually around $450-500; I’m talking about a several year old unit with clean history. In my opinion, $390 with a damage base / cabinet isn’t a real bargain”.


Seller would not refund the money for the item unless it was shipped back to him first, in which case he would decide how much he would refund. At this point he would have my money and the record cleaning machine.

The seller wanted me (buyer) to pay for shipping both ways.

Long winded explanations as to why the damage is not his fault but the buyers. The buyer felt that as it had been sitting in a box on my workbench for four days while away on a business trip, that this sitting had caused some of the damge. The water damage was long term damage.

Ensuing emails contained rude and insulting remarks.

In the end I am stuck with a VPI 16.5 that has split sides, swollen sides and bottom as well as mould. I have been unhappy with how this has worked out and will probably sell it at a loss to buy a new machine, either the VPI 16.5 or the VPI Cyclone.

Buyer Beware.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:05 pm
Posts: 16
Location: Winnipeg, MB, CA
Each to their own, I have had nothing but excellent dealings with this GENTLEMAN.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:16 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 4:07 pm
Posts: 1107
Location: London, ON, CA
You already posted negative feedback. This post is not appropriate.
Or necessary.

Welcome to internet based commerce.

_________________
Oh, this again.....


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:40 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:54 am
Posts: 403
Location: Markham, ON, CA
It is better to deal with a seller that has excellent feedback history. Your negative feedback probably won't help anyone as this seller can open up a new account tomorrow and practice the same trick to another potential unfortunate victim.

Considered yourself lucky with such a small loss. Good luck next time.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:44 pm 
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Location: Calgary, AB, CA
Is it possible that the damage occurred in shipping because the tank was not drained? The damage would still be the sellers fault, but it may explain the original rating.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:44 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:01 am
Posts: 706
Location: Georgetown, ON, CA
RodMan wrote:
You already posted negative feedback. This post is not appropriate.
Or necessary.

Welcome to internet based commerce.


I thought this section of the forum was specifically made for this kind of situation. It's even called "Negative Feedback" The item he purchased from Crossroads is CLEARLY not a "9" or in "Excellent Condition"

IMHO this post is very appropriate and necessary.

-- 03 Jul 2014 01:48 --

tmarx wrote:
Is it possible that the damage occurred in shipping because the tank was not drained? The damage would still be the sellers fault, but it may explain the original rating.



I am not an expert, but I am guessing the mold he found inside the unit indicates the problem did not happen during shipping.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:17 pm 
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Location: London, ON, CA
RobbieR wrote:
RodMan wrote:
You already posted negative feedback. This post is not appropriate.
Or necessary.

Welcome to internet based commerce.


I thought this section of the forum was specifically made for this kind of situation. It's even called "Negative Feedback" The item he purchased from Crossroads is CLEARLY not a "9" or in "Excellent Condition"

IMHO this post is very appropriate and necessary.

-- 03 Jul 2014 01:48 --

tmarx wrote:
Is it possible that the damage occurred in shipping because the tank was not drained? The damage would still be the sellers fault, but it may explain the original rating.



I am not an expert, but I am guessing the mold he found inside the unit indicates the problem did not happen during shipping.


Why have feedback in the 'regular' section AND post it again in a thread?

I do not disagree with a negative, but twice? Seems petty to me. But hey! what do I know!

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Oh, this again.....


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:36 pm 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
I fully support your actions. A negative is easy to give, an explanation is much better. Thank you for the warning.

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I'm sure that the term "resolving" has way more to do with a sense of self worth than any scientific principle. - davinci_redux


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:59 pm 
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Location: Calgary, AB, CA
I think I can see damage on the bottom right side corner in your photos that was not there in the Seller's ad photo.

I'm quite sure the tanks in these things are open on the top. If the seller packed it with a full tank, the damage would have happened during the trip. Also you mention in your feedback that it sat for several days at your house after arriving; combined with the shipping time I think there was plenty of time for mold to form.

The Seller probably didn't realize he shipped it full of fluid, and thought the damaged occurred on your watch. Sadly the design of those things makes it super easy to overflow he drainage tank, so lots of owners have damaged their machines that way.

Also, while it's probably not that important, I don't agree with your Dealer's comment that the switches suggest it's an old unit; the metal toggle switches you commonly see have been in use since VPI produced the preceeding model, which was the HW-16. Looking online now I see elusive disc has photos of new units for sale with the plastic switches like your model, which I have never seen until now:

http://www.elusivedisc.com/VPI-HW-165-B ... /HW-165P1/


Last edited by electrafixion on Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:11 pm 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
How long does mold take to form? Ever look in your toilet after a vacation?

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I'm sure that the term "resolving" has way more to do with a sense of self worth than any scientific principle. - davinci_redux


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:13 pm 
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Location: Montreal, QC, CA
This thread is being locked temporarily locked as the normal procedure for reporting problem sales has not been followed. We await the sellers comments.

To the OP: Please use the Report Ad link within the original ad and forward ALL relevant correspondence to the Moderators e-mail account and NOT to the PM system so we can attempt some sort of resolution.


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 Post subject: Parkie37 Alert
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:49 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:15 pm
Posts: 2
Location: Calgary, AB, CA
Feedback related to: VPI HW 16.5 Record Cleaning Machine



I wish to clarify some of the false and misleading statements made by 'Parkie37" in his negative feedback and to also identify what could be a contrived scam by him to replace my VPI 16.5 with an older damaged VPI for his personal benefit.

I listed on CAM a VPI 16.5 record cleaner which I purchased NEW from Quest For Sound on December 8, 2010. This VPI was in excellent condition and rated 9/10. On June 24, I received an email from Parkie37 stating that "I just sent you a payment for the VPI. Please send it to the Greyhound depot in Langley BC. I would like to pick it up tomorrow as I am away on a business trip the day after." This request was received at 2:54 pm.

In order to meet this somewhat unreasonable timeline request, I scrambled home and both my wife and myself cleaned and inspected the VPI prior to inserting into the plastic bag and original shipping carton. Once again there was no apparent damage and the VPI appeared in excellent condition. Given the fact that it had to be handled on the sides and bottom in order to place in the plastic bag-- one should have witnessed any damage which Parkie37 has eluded to. I delivered the VPI to Greyhound and it arrived the following day as requested by Parkie37. After meeting this request, I was informed by Parkie37 that he had picked up the VPI from Greyhound but did not open until approximately 5 days later. What transpired in that time is uncertain.

The next thing I hear from Parkie37 was that my VPI had "considerable damage on the lower part of the unit and the bottom. The sides had splitting on the corners." In addition, Parkie37 goes on to accuse me of selling him a VPI which he and his VPI Dealer had determined to be "At least 10 years old, and the damage was mainly from a burst water tank. I'm sure VPI probably fixed it".

These false and misleading accusations raised some immediate concerns that Parkie37 was not stating the truth and had a hidden agenda to replace my VPI with an older and damaged VPI. First, if there was any damage on my VPI and especially "sides splitting" as eluded to by Parkie37, my wife or I would have noticed and I would have cancelled the sale. There was no damage and the pictures do not show any damage. Second, for Parkie37 and his "Dealer" to state that my VPI was over 10 years old and had been repaired by VPI are totally false. I immediately offered Parkie37 confirmation of my purchase of the NEW VPI in 2010 and provided him with the contact information at Quest For Sound so that he could confirm for himself. I also confirmed that my VPI had never experienced any problem whatsoever and there had been NO repairs as he had falsely stated. This was clearly a scam by Parkie37 and he made not effort to verify the information provided to him.

Further, I provided Parkie37 with correspondence which I had received from a number of very expensive pieces of equipment which I sold on CAM and in ALL cases I received high praise and compliments for the condition of these items. Again Parkie37 ignored.

Parkie37 demanded all money back and went on to threaten me that he would leave negative feedback on all sites if I did not meet his request. I explained to Parkie37 that his false and misleading accusations have raised Red Flags about his character and Agenda. I have considerable business experience and once a person lies about one issue, there is a pretty good chance that he has a hidden agenda. Therefore, I requested that Parkie37 return MY VPI to me for inspection and a comparative to the pictures I had taken and if this was my VPI and not some 10 year old VPI which Parkie37 and his so called "Dealer" stated, I would refund his money without question and provide my sincere apology. This is standard practice for returning damaged goods.

Parkie37 refused to return my VPI to me and I suspect he was feeling caught in his misleading web of information and deceit. Parkie37 became extremely abusive and threatening. If you plan on doing business with this individual, please do not hesitate to contact me. there are so many GOOD people to do business with and I would not wish this on anyone else.

A Learning Experience and advise to all. Take lots of pictures and identify your unit before shipping because you never really know the agenda of the person you are dealing with. If the person you are dealing with becomes highly aggressive and threating (as I experienced from Parkie37), there is usually an agenda and intimidation is being used to work against you. If you are being honest, stand you ground which is exactly what I did with Parkie37.


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 Post subject: Re: Parkie37 Alert
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:53 am 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Thank you for that!

Always two sides to every story.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:16 am 
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Location: Montreal, QC, CA
Topics merged. And now that we have heard from BOTH sides in this dispute, the topic will remain locked until some sort of resolution occurs. If this is a case of switch and bait as alleged by the seller, it should be easy enough to prove via the serial numbers.


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