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Feedback for dealers regarding experience OUTSIDE of CAM must go in the Dealer Feedback Forum.



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:06 pm 
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Posts: 6
Location: Oshawa, ON, CA
I'm not going to name the person who scammed me but I will discuss my issue with what happened after.

The scenario: I bought an amp for $200 in September 2012 from a well-known person on canuckaudiomart by his many positive feedback. I picked it up from him in person; it had a hum that couldn't be resolved by Deoxit and he requested to take it back for his tech to look over. We met soon after and I gave the amp back to him. In October 2012, he said that the amp was ready for pickup again. I did not contact him until December 2012. He did not reply to any of my emails, as if he had disappeared into thin air. I stopped trying to get hold of him a few months later.

There was no accountability for the amp; I have been defrauded. At the same time, I'm a big enough person that I'm not going to go to the cops and have him charged over $200. I decided to let myself be at peace and wrote off a final email several months ago, inviting him to return my repaired amp or my money.

I was off canuckaudio for some time and then recently came back and saw him listing a nice turntable. I became angry and emailed him again, imploring for my amp/money; no reply. At this point, I wrote a negative feedback about him, describing the entire transaction in detail and making it clear that I would never buy from him again.

I returned to look at his feedback a week later and noticed that my negative comment had been deleted. There was evidence that a negative feedback had been left as there was a red square in his feedback column, but my comment had disappeared.

I assume canuckaudio admin must have been involved in order to eliminate this negative feedback comment. I am upset that it was removed out of simply being an uncomfortable, negative feedback. It was an honest feedback with no personalizing comments or slanderous material, just the bare facts that were evidently too hard to take. I am also upset that I was not told of this move by canuck audio admin or queried further as to the veracity of my feedback; I still have all of the emails; it is as if the incident never happened, far from the truth.

Canuck audio admin, when you allow negative feedback to be removed, it makes me feel invisible and allows a scammer to go free, 100s of positive feedback or not.

Any explanations?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:18 pm 
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Location: Welland, ON, CA
I have one tiny question. Why did it take two months for you to contact him after he let you know that the amp was now ready to be picked up? I can't help but wonder if this may have some bearing on the whole scenario.

Also one other question. How long after the transaction was it before you left feedback, and was the feedback you left him connected to the original ad that you responded to? First you cannot leave someone feedback linked to another ad other than the one you responded to originally. It should be fairly obvious as to why this is completely unfair regardless of the situation. Secondly there is a time limit for leaving feedback for a transaction. Again it should be completely obvious why this has to be the way it is. Despite the real possibility that the negative feedback was warranted, this does not justify circumventing the rules to leave this feedback. Leaving of feedback, either negative or positive, has to be done in a timely manner. This is the only fair solution to both parties. It is difficult to justify waiting several months to finally leave negative feedback.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:36 pm 
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Location: Montreal, QC, CA
@drec, would you please email moderators@canuckaudiomart.com and provide the transaction details, particularly with whom. At this point we can't tell if it's a bug or something else. Thank you.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:43 pm 
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http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/faq.php#feedbackrules

Quote:
What are the feedback rules?

Please observe the following rules when leaving feedback. If you do not follow these rules your feedback may be DELETED!:
  • Only leave feedback in the ad that relates to your buy/sell/trade.
  • Only leave feedback for a deal where items/money have exchanged hands.
  • Do NOT leave feedback if a deal fails to go through
  • DO leave feedback if items are not as described
  • DO leave feedback if you never received your item or money in an exchange!
  • Do not swear or use strong language in feedback.
  • Do NOT leave phone numbers, home addresses, and other personal information of the user. Please leave this information as confidential.
  • Do NOT use feedback to warn users about OTHER exchanges you may have had with the user. Report those in our Negative feedback forum instead.
  • Do leave feedback anytime before 60 days since the expiration of the ad. Any feedback from either party left after 60 will be discarded.
  • If you suspect this person of fraud due to his emails or ads, report either his ads, or one of his replies, or post in our fraud forum.


Due to the extraordinary length of time that expired from when your deal was consummated and when you began filing your grievance with the seller, we could not allow the feedback since 60 days had clearly expired. My recollection of the grievance is that the seller offered you compensation a while ago but you failed to respond.

As Toby said, you are welcome to email the moderators and we can potentially mediate a settlement if the seller is still agreeable. It is our position that no "fraud" has taken place. It seems to be a break-down in communication more than anything else.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:48 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:52 am
Posts: 6
Location: Oshawa, ON, CA
good sound wrote:
I have one tiny question. Why did it take two months for you to contact him after he let you know that the amp was now ready to be picked up? I can't help but wonder if this may have some bearing on the whole scenario.

Also one other question. How long after the transaction was it before you left feedback, and was the feedback you left him connected to the original ad that you responded to? First you cannot leave someone feedback linked to another ad other than the one you responded to originally. It should be fairly obvious as to why this is completely unfair regardless of the situation. Secondly there is a time limit for leaving feedback for a transaction. Again it should be completely obvious why this has to be the way it is. Despite the real possibility that the negative feedback was warranted, this does not justify circumventing the rules to leave this feedback. Leaving of feedback, either negative or positive, has to be done in a timely manner. This is the only fair solution to both parties. It is difficult to justify waiting several months to finally leave negative feedback.


It took me a few months because I live over an hour drive away from him and didn't make the time. That's problematic and inconvenient, but hardly worth not responding to someone when you've got the goods. He didn't give me any notice that I had to pick the amp up in x number of days or he would ditch it.

The feedback left was not for the original ad, as the original ad had terminated probably around a year ago. I went to his nickname and clicked on a box to leave feedback; the feedback wasn't attached to any ad.

Sure, it is difficult to justify after several months. The incident happened as it did. Perhaps it is better that I leave the feedback in this forum, then?

-- 04 Oct 2013 23:50 --

angust63 wrote:
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/faq.php#feedbackrules

Quote:
What are the feedback rules?

Please observe the following rules when leaving feedback. If you do not follow these rules your feedback may be DELETED!:
  • Only leave feedback in the ad that relates to your buy/sell/trade.
  • Only leave feedback for a deal where items/money have exchanged hands.
  • Do NOT leave feedback if a deal fails to go through
  • DO leave feedback if items are not as described
  • DO leave feedback if you never received your item or money in an exchange!
  • Do not swear or use strong language in feedback.
  • Do NOT leave phone numbers, home addresses, and other personal information of the user. Please leave this information as confidential.
  • Do NOT use feedback to warn users about OTHER exchanges you may have had with the user. Report those in our Negative feedback forum instead.
  • Do leave feedback anytime before 60 days since the expiration of the ad. Any feedback from either party left after 60 will be discarded.
  • If you suspect this person of fraud due to his emails or ads, report either his ads, or one of his replies, or post in our fraud forum.


Due to the extraordinary length of time that expired from when your deal was consummated and when you began filing your grievance with the seller, we could not allow the feedback since 60 days had clearly expired. My recollection of the grievance is that the seller offered you compensation a while ago but you failed to respond.

As Toby said, you are welcome to email the moderators and we can potentially mediate a settlement if the seller is still agreeable. It is our position that no "fraud" has taken place. It seems to be a break-down in communication more than anything else.


My apologies, I did not read the last couple of rules.

No compensation was offered; I was offered to pick my amp up, it took 2 months for me to get back to him and I haven't had a reply since.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:06 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:39 pm
Posts: 1684
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
So, mods, it's fine to take someone's money on CAM then, and get away with it? If I give someone couple hundred bucks, and don't have time to pick it up within two months, does that money disappear?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:16 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:55 am
Posts: 2580
Location: iii, ON, CA
zhenya01 wrote:
So, mods, it's fine to take someone's money on CAM then, and get away with it? If I give someone couple hundred bucks, and don't have time to pick it up within two months, does that money disappear?



I am willing to bet there is a whole other side to this story.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:50 pm 
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Location: Sainte-Marguerite-du-Lac-Masson, QC, CA
Close to the Edge wrote:
zhenya01 wrote:
So, mods, it's fine to take someone's money on CAM then, and get away with it? If I give someone couple hundred bucks, and don't have time to pick it up within two months, does that money disappear?



I am willing to bet there is a whole other side to this story.


...there is always another side to the story :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:20 pm 
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Posts: 4918
Location: Montreal, QC, CA
@zhenya01, it is never OK to take somebody's money, or anything else that is not freely given.

On a number of occasions, in the past, when deals have gone wrong, CAM volunteers have made an effort to help the parties concerned come to a resolution. These volunteers have, sometimes, included CAM users like yourself.

However, at the moment, the OP's request for help is addressed to the moderators. Please consider leaving them to handle things for now.

Also, please take note of two things concerning CAM.

1. CAM is not a place, to exchange money in or do anything else. Money actually changes hands where the buyer and seller agree to do it. They cannot do it "on CAM". They make the agreement to do it via CAM, which is not the same thing. CAM does not handle money or goods.

2. If you have an issue with a moderator's decision, you may not take it up in a topic thread. Use the PM system please.

zhenya01 wrote:
So, mods, it's fine to take someone's money on CAM then, and get away with it? If I give someone couple hundred bucks, and don't have time to pick it up within two months, does that money disappear?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:11 pm 
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Location: Delta, BC, CA
Close to the Edge wrote:
zhenya01 wrote:
So, mods, it's fine to take someone's money on CAM then, and get away with it? If I give someone couple hundred bucks, and don't have time to pick it up within two months, does that money disappear?



I am willing to bet there is a whole other side to this story.


Exactly. The seller explained his side of the story to us and we did not act without taking both sides' information into consideration.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:30 am 
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Location: Hamilton, ON, CA
comment removed just saw the leave it in hands of mods request


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:40 am 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
-comment removed- I also noticed the mod comments, indeed, let the mods deal with this.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:16 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:52 am
Posts: 6
Location: Oshawa, ON, CA
TLEGRES wrote:
Close to the Edge wrote:
zhenya01 wrote:
So, mods, it's fine to take someone's money on CAM then, and get away with it? If I give someone couple hundred bucks, and don't have time to pick it up within two months, does that money disappear?



I am willing to bet there is a whole other side to this story.


...there is always another side to the story :wink:


How droll. My only mistake is not whipping into shape sooner on this matter. I will refrain from further comment on the specifics of the matter. I've learned my lesson: deal with things immediately when stuff hits the fan.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:40 am 
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Location: Newmarket, ON, CA
drec wrote:

How droll. My only mistake is not whipping into shape sooner on this matter. I will refrain from further comment on the specifics of the matter. I've learned my lesson: deal with things immediately when stuff hits the fan.



or as a seller, if the stuff hits the fan just wait and delay long enough that the original add expires, and eventually the buyer will have no channel to leave negative feedback.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:50 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:31 pm
Posts: 314
Location: Southern, ON, CA
oh brother, I cant speak for the rest of you but my nerves are really beginning to fray with the persistent whining on this site lately, people who screw up then roll up to playing victims and conveniently blame this site, which is no holds barred a fantastic site and phenomenal resource for audiophiles, and of course they direct it at the moderators who give up their own FREE time, yes FREE time, acting as the glue that holds all this together. Maybe, instead of constantly trying to bend the negative fdbk rules for their own good, lets try to start appreciating this site and the people who selflessly hold it together...because as we all should know, when one stops appreciating something, they invariably lose it.


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