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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:06 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:47 am
Posts: 6
Location: Lachine, QC, CA
I'd like some members opinions on CAM transaction with member "Pure Sound"
The ad was for a Classe DR-3B with the heading:

"CLASSE DR3 B power amp to trade for Integrated ayre,naim,unico"

first posted Apr17/2013

I sent the person an email thru CAM asking how much he would accept
for the amplifier in cash as I had nothing to trade. He said he
would accept $1500 which is not out of line for a DR-3B. I accepted
and we set up a meeting to conduct the transaction.

What should have been a tip off was that he didnt keep his word 3
times for meeting up for this transaction. I was quite willing to drive
to his house for a demo but he always wanted to meet half way then
something always came up that his plans had to change. I should
have listened to the voice in my head and walked away from this but
on Apr30, he phoned and offered to deliver the amplifier to my house.
Its not far, we live only about 50km apart.

He did arrive as promised, really - a nice enough guy, The amp was very
dirty but this is never an issue for me as I do restorations. There was
also an original DR-3 manual and there were the big silver plated speaker
connectors on the rear. I didnt listen to the unit, I didnt need to. While
he was here I put the unit on my bench and ran it thru some tests, all
seemed normal. Power output and distortion were about right. I did not
open it up to look inside, knowing that I would do this later and adjust
bias and DC offset. The transaction was completed and he left.

When I did open it, I found that the unit was actually a DR-2. Those silver
plated output jacks had been added later, possibly by Classe as the job was
reasonably well done. I also noticed that on the DR-2 "label", on the rear
between those output connectors - the "2" had been scratched out so the
label simply said "DR". The big blue filter caps were dated 1981 and the
driver boards were labeled DR2PCB1RO. A DR-2.

I emailed the seller that the unit was a DR-2 not a DR-3B. He replied he was
surprised and claimed he had no idea about this. He had bought it that way and
had used it for years under the assumption that it was a DR-3B. Further
inspection revealed one of the 1000uf electrolytics was bulging (normal for
age - easily fixed). The seller said he would contact the store where he bought
it (years ago so what purpose this would serve I have no idea). I said that I
liked the amp and wanted to keep it BUT - I did not get what the ad said, what
I paid for, and what I thought I was buying. I had simply paid way too much
for for a DR-2, so I suggested a $200 refund, which is more than fair and I
would accept that I was still paying too much for it (IE $1300 instead of $1500)

He claimed he did not have any money at the moment and had tried to phone me several
times. I have an answering machine - no messages have been left. Subsequent
emails that I have sent have not be answered.

I hesitate to post negative feedback. I have never had negative feedback,
either on CAM, ebay or elsewhere and I dont want retaliation for this transaction
if I do post some. I mostly sell on Kijiji. This way I get to meet the buyer,
demonstrate the unit properly and am reasonably sure the buyer
is happy when he leaves after paying. I have had some requests form non-local
people and these transactions have required me to ship the item and there have
been no problems with this either. As this was a face-to-face CAM transaction,
I felt my criteria was being met. I admit ignorance on my part as well. I had
never seen a DR-2 or a DR-3 close up. I had only looked at pictures taken
from the net but I guess this was not enough. The DR-3 manual also fooled me.

When a Kijiji buyer leaves my house with his purchase, even if it is a $10 item, I always
tell them that if they are not happy they can return it within a reasonable amount
of time, say a week or so. My reputation is more valuable than money. It's worth it
just to see the expression on their face and, I have never had anything returned.
I do not expect this treatment from those who I buy items from on Kijiji, it is a much
more buyer-beware environment, but I do expect to get what I have paid for.

So - a heads up. The seller just sold a Music Hall DAC so it will be interesting to
see the feedback (if any) on that transaction. If I do eventually (and I dont expect
to) get the $200 refund I will post that here.

Thanks


Last edited by Computeruser on Sat May 25, 2013 5:15 am, edited 5 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:38 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:37 pm
Posts: 419
Location: Cambridge, ON, CA
Post a negative feedback, there is no excuse for misrepresenting items. To many members let this type of thing go, which leads to more members being scammed.

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:05 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:00 am
Posts: 4005
Location: Golden Triangle, ON, CA
Actually after reading his ad that clearly states he was selling and advertising
a Classe DR3 and you paid for that but recieved a far lesser DR 2 and whether
or not it is to be believed he was actually unaware of this is not the issue at all.

The issue is HE sold an advertised an item that was not as advertised and HE
is totally responsable. A FULL REFUND is waranted here.
I would contact administration with copies of all your
communications and the reference to his ad. This is clearly
a case of fraud , if the seller truly did not know and was honest
his response when informed would not be to disappear.
The fact you would accept a small amount that clearly still
favors the seller to me shows you are being overly fair here.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:30 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:58 pm
Posts: 211
Location: Montreal, QC, CA
Sorry to hear about your ordeal with this con artist. I find it pretty lame of him to say he has no money at this time, given the fact that you just handed him $1500. At this point, if I were you, I wouldn't waste any time. If payment was done in cash, I would file a suit through the small claims court. If payment was done through Paypal and put on your credit card, then I would I would open a case with Paypal. In any case, I would not waste too much time, as judging by a quick Google on this character doesn't leave me with a good feeling. There are always good Classé's for sale from decent people, so there's no need in wanting to hold on to this one. Good luck.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:16 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:47 am
Posts: 6
Location: Lachine, QC, CA
Thanks for all the responses. I'm just going to
wait a bit, let more people respond, then send him
the link to this forum topic. I paid in cash. I'm not
going to court over it. Life is too short.


Last edited by Computeruser on Thu May 23, 2013 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:29 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:59 am
Posts: 643
Location: edmonton, AB, CA
Colour it any way the ad said DR3... This guy should be banned from CAM. If I have any difficulties(as a buyer or seller) I try to be as accommodating and reasonable as possible, that being said I've never sold or bought something and received something different... That is borderline theft IMHO.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:12 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:41 pm
Posts: 2249
Location: Comfort Country, ON, CA
Sorry to hear this Computeruser. It appears you've been defrauded. You didn't get what you thought you paid for. Contact the mods to see if they can help. You're being very conciliatory in offering to accept a $200 refund. I would push for a full refund. As far as the negative feedback goes, if you aren't completely satisfied, post it. Don't hesitate to contact the mods to have retaliatory feedback removed, if it is posted. Good luck.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:27 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:12 am
Posts: 402
Location: Scarborough, ON, CA
You seem really patient. They way you described it, the guy may not have known that it was fraud. However, he should honour the $200 less you wanted in return.

Not all guys know everything about every piece of gear, however if he was a stand up guy, he should refund you some cash at the very least. Without getting anything back from him shows his character whether or not he knew what it really was.

You are right though, not worth the hassle to drag yourself to court over.

JJ


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:02 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:39 pm
Posts: 1673
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
I don't have much to add to previous responses, but completely agree with those posts.
- The guy sold you DR2 instead of DR3.
- You're entitled to full refund, so the fact that he does not have any money after you just gave him $1500 is his problem.
- If he does not agree to your proposed solution, which is way more than fair, then leave negative feedback and contact CAM moderators to get this user banned for fraud.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 1:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:24 pm
Posts: 289
Location: B, ON, CA
.

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Last edited by Morguex99 on Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:13 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:25 pm
Posts: 1008
Location: Toronto
hmm.. isn't it buyer beware ?
I mean he didnt buy the item from a store.
In turn, if I was the buyer, I would want a refund as well as the item was misrepresented.
This is an enthusiast community and we must all buy and sell in good honest terms.

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:26 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:42 am
Posts: 38
Location: stirling, ON, CA
That is not right at all. I'm sure seller would have known what he had, we all would after having the unit for years. Should get some money back. I know I wouldn't buy from him.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:18 pm
Posts: 1329
Location: Montreal, QC, CA
Deal with it the old way: knee cap and bullets don't match well together. He is lying when he says he doesn't have money: he's got YOUR money.

I just checked the guy and he is from Quebec...one more...when will this stop?????

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:51 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Quebec, QC, CA
Not surprisingly, this guy doesn't have any feedback! CAM works on trust! I also had my fair share of bad luck with a few users, among which a certain soundblaster was banned. These guys end up re-appearing under a different moniker after a short while. I am from Quebec City and I hate that a few dishonest people like him end up hurting all of us in terms of reputation. :evil: I really hope you get some of your money back. I see that you are from Lachine and this is where Classé is based if I am not mistaken. I hope they can work something out for you if necessary. They have great customer support! That user should be banned. He says he has no money? What has he done with the money he literally stole from you?

Please put all of us in the same basket, there are good people in Quebec too! :D


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:59 pm
Posts: 174
Location: Mississauga, ON, CA
He doesn't have $200 of his own but he's got $1500 of yours.


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