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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:16 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:37 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Ajax, ON, CA
Just a quick question to the general community...

I recently sold a tube amplifier to a gentleman - great guy, easy transaction, all was well...

Fast forward two weeks - he calls me back and asks for a refund. He says he brought it to "his technician" because he did not like the sound of this amp in comparison to another tube amp he currently owns. His "technician" told him it could use new tubes and a few other things to make it "sound better", however, the unit is fully functional.

I personally do not think a refund is in order, however, I was wondering what everyone else says?

If the buyer had contacted me right away to let me know the unit was broken, or non-functional, then yes I can justify a refund. Though once purchased it is his property to do with as he pleases. I would have preferred him to contact me ASAP (to let me know he was not pleased with the sound ) before giving the amp to his technician to tinker with. I provided the SAMS pdf schematic and parts list, but he forgot to give it to his tech.

I'm not trying to be difficult, but at the same time, I'm not a Big Box Store offering satisfaction guaranteed or money refunded...

I'm thinking this might be a case of buyers remorse, which I understand first hand. I've been in similar situations in my life but would never anticipate a refund two weeks later... Just interested in knowing what others think...

Cheers,
Adam.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:33 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:55 pm
Posts: 1714
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
If no "return policy" was given at sale - and the unit looks/functions as described, then you have no obligation.

I've noted of late a general trend that Canadian buyers have the same sense of entitlement when buying used vs new. Generally speaking, the "Champagne on a Beer Budget" is alive and well within our blessed community.

QED: Agon still thrives.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:34 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:50 pm
Posts: 12106
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
If the tubes are marginal, then shame on you! Give a refund.

If they test strong and he just does not like the sound, well, that's another matter completely, and is not your problem. No refund.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:45 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:31 pm
Posts: 952
Location: Victoria, BC, CA
You have no obligation here at all. I don't agree with stating a "no return policy" either - everyone knows how it works here in terms of buying used gear. We all make mistakes during this audio journey, and it is impossible to determine synergy until a piece is operating within a given system. Buyers remorse it is, and it is something your buyer will have to take responsibility for and live with. Could use better tubes? So be it! When you buy that used car, could it use better tires? Can you contact the previous owner and state that you don't like how the car feels on a bunpy road, and that it could use better tires, and perhaps even new shocks? - thus you would like your money back? I think not.

If you knowingly sold him a tube pre that was problematic, then this becomes a question of ethics on your part - but I don't sense that this is the case here. You will receive a fair number of responses to your inquiry on this thread, let them accumulate for a day or two and then refer your buyer to read the entries.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:53 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:37 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Ajax, ON, CA
I guess I should also mention that I had offered to audition the amp here in my home for him.

He opted against the idea because it was over an hours drive to do so. He indicated "I’m in the west end and it’s a long way to drop by for a listen. Based on your current equipment list, I’m pretty comfortable that you know a lot about tubes..."

This is true, however, I've spent upwards of $7K and many years tube rolling in my current 2 channel setup.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:59 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:50 pm
Posts: 12106
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
An audition refused? Forget it then. He's just not happy.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:04 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:54 am
Posts: 1737
Location: Gatineau, QC, CA
No freekin way, he can sell the thing himself, you have nothing to feel bad about and no further responsibility. I would have laughed my ass off at that one....two weeks later...brought to his "tech" forget about it!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:08 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:49 am
Posts: 700
Location: Mississauga, ON
Happens a lot when we buy something and then it just doesnt sound right at home. On new equipment some dealers have 30 day return policy on private sales, you bought it for used price you can sell it for used price. Its the price of demoing items at home.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:21 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:59 am
Posts: 644
Location: edmonton, AB, CA
He is an owner! It is SOLD! SOLD! SOLD!Especially after 2 weeks!? If it was not sold with a fault(ie. in full working order) than it's a done deal. I have had a person ask me to claim shipping damage 3.5 weeksafter they received the item. When pressed about the request they said "they just didn't have time(!?!) to unpack it. This is not acceptable to shippers or sellers by the way. Here's a two words to your buyer, "due diligence", because you don't like your purchase, tough it is no excuse for this infantile behaviour. As to tube gear bought online it is my belief unless it's the original owner or the seller has bought newtubes and has the facility to have it completely checked out by a real technician(no,not your buddies 2nd cousin's roommate's brother-in-law Otis) with a printed result it has not been serviced So what where your claims to the seller? If you don't mind me asking...Where is the ad link?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:30 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:26 pm
Posts: 2709
Location: Airdrie, AB, CA
If it's fully functional, and it's condition is as described in your ad, etc and he passed on the audition, I can't see where you'd have any obligation to do any more. Unless a trial period was offered. He should roll some tubes and have some fun... or sell it and buy something else.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:37 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:39 pm
Posts: 1678
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Weird. If everything is working and was sold as described, then obviously you're not obligated to him at all. ESPECIALLY, if some "technician friend" went over that amp. I have seen too many of those "friends" unfortunately.
I was in a similar situation a few years ago. A guy comes to my place, auditions a pair of Totem speakers with his own amp, loves the sound, buys the speakers (one tweeter had a dimple, which was clearly shown to him). Calls me up a couple of months later - tweeters are fried, quotation from bay-bloor for replacement is so much, do you want to share the repair cost. I was like WTF?!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:37 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Ajax, ON, CA
At the time of the hand-off everything was working flawlessly. I was as honest as possible with the buyer - letting him know that I had replaced power supply caps and upgraded the output capacitors with PIO's as well. I did not make any claims regarding tube life or hours of use etc... There was no "trial period" or "return policy" discussed with the sale as it seemed (to me at least) to be common sense...

I've never had this kind of experience when selling used gear before so it really threw me for a loop...

Thanks again for the input everyone...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:24 am
Posts: 1469
Location: Ajax, ON, CA
If he doesn't like the sound after 2 weeks? Really, you gotta ask?

I wish! I bought some Nordost jumpers, the sound wasn't what I was hoping for, it never occurred to me to ask for a refund. Hmmm, maybe I should now.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:53 pm
Posts: 1587
Location: pickering, ON, CA
this guy has some nerve, bought without listening, paid lower used price. had it for 2 weeks plus, you have alot more patiance than i would, tell this loser to take a hike!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:54 pm
Posts: 3342
Location: NL
Never had this happen...

It always sounds different at home....

You have no need for a refund as it is not out on a loan or trial for 14 or so days

When purchasing used.... emails or phone calls exchanged an agreed deal was reach where both adults have agreed,than a deal is a deal ,,,,

Done


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