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 Post subject: Too high expectations?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:25 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 5
Location: London, ON, CA
Hi everybody,
I just want the community to listen to my story and help to understand whether something went wrong or I have too high expectations and should perform the reality check more often.

In March 2012 I found a very brief ad on CanuckAudioMart:

"!!!WOW!!! in mint condition"

"!!!WOW!!!" in this particular case was a device that I owned already, but mine had several problems due to it's age. I have a fellow repairman who could fix it but we could not find parts and the service price was not that low. I've contacted the seller immediately and requested some details and photos. I was sold completely on "mint" word already and I wanted to check if the exterior was ok and if the device is fully functional. I've got photos and positive answers quite soon. Seller requested reasonable money for shipment and I've paid everything in full without a word.

The device arrived and everything was great. I connected it to my system and in 5 minutes test I've discovered that the "mint" device has the problem that affects the sound seriously. To fix the problem I had to buy new parts or use my old device of the same model as a donor. I had to call the repairman and I was told to prepare another 140 dollars or so, because he has to deal with two devices now. Well, I bought a "mint" device and finally I have TWO devices with PROBLEMS.

I've contacted the seller and explained the issue. I asked 50 dollars as a refund that will not compensate my expenses and frustration, but at least will help me to deal with it. I've provided photos of my device, video proof that demonstrates the problem of the sellers device. After the month of exchanging messages seller agreed the problem was overlooked during his test and he will refund me 50 dollars.

I tried all possible diplomatic ways of resolving the issue. Never got the money and never heard from the seller again.
I have fixed the "mint" device and it works well, it cost me a bit more than 140 and my old device is not working any more.

I don't want to spoil seller's karma but at the same time I feel that a small refund would resolve the issue and I would avoid that bitter feeling of being mistreated.

I'd like to listen to collective wisdom and if the community decides the sellers name should be released - I'll provide full details.
Thank you for your time.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:08 am 
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Location: Collingwood, ON, CA
First off, your old, non-working device is not relevant.

I get the impression the item you bought is more than a few years old. Nothing more than 5 minutes old is 'mint'.

If something arrives in less than expected condition it is generally the responsibility of the seller to make it right - how, buy mutual agreement.

If the seller blows you off - either suck it up and live with it as a lesson learned (ie., only buy face to face), or complain if you feel you have been badly wronged.

Then, at least you've done all you can.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:22 am 
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Location: Welland, ON, CA
I don't think your expectations are too high. If you have not already I would leave naegstive feedback for the seller with the contingencey that it will be removed if he follows through with his end of the agreement.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:24 am 
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Location: Ajax, ON, CA
I would forward all the relevent emails to the moderators and they will either try to help resolve, change feedback, or ban the offending member if they are satisfied that something was sold defective advertised as mint and not done anything to rectify it.

Trial of public opinion never seems to go well for either party.

Good luck.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:28 am 
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Location: London, ON, CA
meiwan wrote:
First off, your old, non-working device is not relevant.


Agreed.

meiwan wrote:
"I get the impression the item you bought is more than a few years old. Nothing more than 5 minutes old is 'mint'. "


The item is 30 years old. I've asked if everything is OK, no even one problem was mentioned.
I simply would not buy another device of the same kind with ANY problem.

meiwan wrote:
If something arrives in less than expected condition it is generally the responsibility of the seller to make it right - how, buy mutual agreement.


What do you mean by "buy mutual agreement"?

-- 31 Jul 2012 17:30 --

good sound wrote:
I don't think your expectations are too high. If you have not already I would leave naegstive feedback for the seller with the contingencey that it will be removed if he follows through with his end of the agreement.


Thanks for reply. It is too late to leave a feedback, because I've made a purchase in March. And for the several months seller kept me promising something.

-- 31 Jul 2012 17:39 --

Kartmn wrote:
I would forward all the relevent emails to the moderators and they will either try to help resolve, change feedback, or ban the offending member if they are satisfied that something was sold defective advertised as mint and not done anything to rectify it.

Trial of public opinion never seems to go well for either party.

Good luck.


I understand that this is the right place to provide negative feedback, especially if it is too late to leave it for transaction. I never had a bad experience like that before and after observing several posts in this topic I was under impression that putting someone's reputation under question right away is not always a first choice.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:59 am 
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Location: Brantford, ON, CA
Live and learn, shop elsewhere next time.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:07 am 
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Location: Nepean, ON, CA
You say that you found the problem within five minutes of connecting it to your system. At that point did you contact the seller to request a return/refund or for a mutual agreement to send it to shop to have a tech look at it and provide a repair estimate? Or did you just take it to the shop and have it repaired?

30 year old equipment is 30 year old equipment, mint or not. A lot of things can happen to it especially during shipping. As the seller I would expect the buyer to notify me promptly of any issues/problems before going ahead with mods or repairs. That would give me the option to ask the item be returned for a refund or agree to get an estimate for repairs.

If the seller agreed to the repairs becore you took it to the shop then you are right to be upset.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:27 am 
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Location: London, ON, CA
GWN wrote:
You say that you found the problem within five minutes of connecting it to your system. At that point did you contact the seller to request a return/refund or for a mutual agreement to send it to shop to have a tech look at it and provide a repair estimate? Or did you just take it to the shop and have it repaired?

30 year old equipment is 30 year old equipment, mint or not. A lot of things can happen to it especially during shipping. As the seller I would expect the buyer to notify me promptly of any issues/problems before going ahead with mods or repairs. That would give me the option to ask the item be returned for a refund or agree to get an estimate for repairs.

If the seller agreed to the repairs becore you took it to the shop then you are right to be upset.


I've contacted the seller right after I found the issue. At the very beginning I thought it was a random glitch, but I was able to reproduce it easily and finally I videotaped it. I've sent a polite message with photos and videos to the seller and he offered me a free repair but he wanted me to pay for shipping. The item is quite heavy (more than 40lb with wooden cabinet) and the shipping is quite expensive. So I had to pay for shipping twice. I refused. Then I called repairman to give me an estimate. Once I've got numbers from technician - I've contacted seller again. He agreed to refund and then disappeared.

I agree that many things could happen during shipping, but it was well packed and VU meters which are much more fragile and shock-sensitive than the parts in question were just OK.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:35 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:50 pm
Posts: 12106
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
viktorus wrote:
Hi everybody,
I just want the community to listen to my story and help to understand whether something went wrong or I have too high expectations and should perform the reality check more often.

In March 2012 I found a very brief ad on CanuckAudioMart:

"!!!WOW!!! in mint condition"

"!!!WOW!!!" in this particular case was a device that I owned already, but mine had several problems due to it's age. I have a fellow repairman who could fix it but we could not find parts and the service price was not that low. I've contacted the seller immediately and requested some details and photos. I was sold completely on "mint" word already and I wanted to check if the exterior was ok and if the device is fully functional. I've got photos and positive answers quite soon. Seller requested reasonable money for shipment and I've paid everything in full without a word.

The device arrived and everything was great. I connected it to my system and in 5 minutes test I've discovered that the "mint" device has the problem that affects the sound seriously. To fix the problem I had to buy new parts or use my old device of the same model as a donor. I had to call the repairman and I was told to prepare another 140 dollars or so, because he has to deal with two devices now. Well, I bought a "mint" device and finally I have TWO devices with PROBLEMS.

I've contacted the seller and explained the issue. I asked 50 dollars as a refund that will not compensate my expenses and frustration, but at least will help me to deal with it. I've provided photos of my device, video proof that demonstrates the problem of the sellers device. After the month of exchanging messages seller agreed the problem was overlooked during his test and he will refund me 50 dollars.

I tried all possible diplomatic ways of resolving the issue. Never got the money and never heard from the seller again.
I have fixed the "mint" device and it works well, it cost me a bit more than 140 and my old device is not working any more.

I don't want to spoil seller's karma but at the same time I feel that a small refund would resolve the issue and I would avoid that bitter feeling of being mistreated.

I'd like to listen to collective wisdom and if the community decides the sellers name should be released - I'll provide full details.
Thank you for your time.


Who was this?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:00 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:57 pm
Posts: 1404
Location: Collingwood, ON, CA
At 30 years old mint is a dream. Anything can go wrong at any time, you take your chances. Still, sounds like the seller behaved reasonably. He just failed to follow though as promised. Maybe complain to cam and see if they will follow up. And don't buy delicate equipment by mail. I learned that one the hard way also.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:08 am 
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Posts: 798
Location: Nepean, ON, CA
viktorus wrote:
GWN wrote:
You say that you found the problem within five minutes of connecting it to your system. At that point did you contact the seller to request a return/refund or for a mutual agreement to send it to shop to have a tech look at it and provide a repair estimate? Or did you just take it to the shop and have it repaired?

30 year old equipment is 30 year old equipment, mint or not. A lot of things can happen to it especially during shipping. As the seller I would expect the buyer to notify me promptly of any issues/problems before going ahead with mods or repairs. That would give me the option to ask the item be returned for a refund or agree to get an estimate for repairs.

If the seller agreed to the repairs becore you took it to the shop then you are right to be upset.


I've contacted the seller right after I found the issue. At the very beginning I thought it was a random glitch, but I was able to reproduce it easily and finally I videotaped it. I've sent a polite message with photos and videos to the seller and he offered me a free repair but he wanted me to pay for shipping. The item is quite heavy (more than 40lb with wooden cabinet) and the shipping is quite expensive. So I had to pay for shipping twice. I refused. Then I called repairman to give me an estimate. Once I've got numbers from technician - I've contacted seller again. He agreed to refund and then disappeared.

I agree that many things could happen during shipping, but it was well packed and VU meters which are much more fragile and shock-sensitive than the parts in question were just OK.


It looks like you did everything right. You are right to be upset.

Actually 30 year old dried up solder joints at the component level or any of the said components are more likely to fail before the VU meters. Unfortunately these things happen. I recently purchased a 40 year old receiver that looked brand new. It functioned flawlessly for about three weeks when I used it on FM only. The problem started when I tried to insert more component to the back, turntable, cd player. Those 40 year old connectors and their solder joint did not survive and the unit stopped playing in the left channel. Fortunately their was no damage just needed to rewire the connectors. It is now on my bench waiting as a winter project to tear down, replace the caps and rear connector, that dried up wiring and reflow some of those joints.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:32 am 
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Posts: 5
Location: London, ON, CA
meiwan wrote:
At 30 years old mint is a dream. Anything can go wrong at any time, you take your chances. Still, sounds like the seller behaved reasonably. He just failed to follow though as promised. Maybe complain to cam and see if they will follow up. And don't buy delicate equipment by mail. I learned that one the hard way also.


Thanks for reply, could you clarify pls who is "cam"? (I don't know many people here...)
Thanks!

-- 31 Jul 2012 19:36 --

GWN wrote:
It looks like you did everything right. You are right to be upset.

Actually 30 year old dried up solder joints at the component level or any of the said components are more likely to fail before the VU meters. Unfortunately these things happen. I recently purchased a 40 year old receiver that looked brand new. It functioned flawlessly for about three weeks when I used it on FM only. The problem started when I tried to insert more component to the back, turntable, cd player. Those 40 year old connectors and their solder joint did not survive and the unit stopped playing in the left channel. Fortunately their was no damage just needed to rewire the connectors. It is now on my bench waiting as a winter project to tear down, replace the caps and rear connector, that dried up wiring and reflow some of those joints.


Thanks for reply. I see your point.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:01 pm 
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Posts: 546
Location: North York, ON, CA
yournamehere wrote:
Live and learn, shop elsewhere next time.


This reply is not helpful to the OP or CAM :shock:


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:34 pm 
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Location: Vancouver Island, BC, CA
Man, kinda feel like most responses to the op here are pretty bitter. Have to agree that most things 30 years old are not mint--so don't advertise it as such. If you tell me your 30-year-old item is "WOW Mint!", then I'm going to expect that it at least fully functions. Now, for how much longer--who can say. It's a crapshoot at that point. Nonetheless, according to the op, the seller acknowledged that he 'overlooked' the issue while testing it. :roll: So we can reasonably assume that it was not 'mint', not even fully functioning, before being shipped.
Buyer has right to be pissed. Should've acted more quickly in an attempt to get things settled, whatever that might mean. And can now start slinging mud I suppose, not that it will help. (Best advice was to contact Canuck Audio Mart administrators first.)
Finally, though, it's always intersting to hear the other side of the story...

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:40 pm 
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Location: Brantford, ON, CA
akanrg wrote:
yournamehere wrote:
Live and learn, shop elsewhere next time.


This reply is not helpful to the OP or CAM :shock:



Yeah, OK. In a situation where no satisfactory solution seems likely, what is the solution?
Advise the OP to continue on the same path, with same complaints, or suggest a wholesale change in thinking?
Buy used from a dealer with a warranty, where you can go and see the piece in use.

So many sob stories, but do the same thing over and over?

30 yr old gear?

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