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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:12 am 
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These "that's the way I got it" and "no speak the good English" excuses are pretty lame ... and pretty old.

Robert, do the right thing. Refund the buyer's money if you are an honest man. A bad reputation is hard to get rid of, but you seem to care about money more than that.

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1978 Rickenbacker 4001, 2010 Gibson Thunderbird, and Dean Fretless Basses;
1987 Guild Nightbird, 2000 Taylor 310KCE, and Godin 5th Avenue Guitars.

If you can use one of those newfangled Internets, you can post photos in your damn classified ads. :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:50 am 
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Location: Mississauga, ON
I have also dealt with Robert many times and all went well. He is an honest guy and did not mean any harm.
He was selling a 2K cart for couple hundred $$$ like someone else mentioned. I think that Robert knew that the cart did not work, and you knew that when buying. None of you knew there was anything "special" done to the cart. IMHO when buying used #1 inspect it, #2 know that its used and who knows what happened to it yesterday. I dont think there should be any refunds but thats just me.


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:58 am 
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How could he have inspected the INSIDE of the cartridge? Yes he knew that it needed repair, but who would have figured that some moron would have tried to glue a cantilever on? That is neither wear and tear or an internal failure ... both of which are understandable when buying used.

_________________
1978 Rickenbacker 4001, 2010 Gibson Thunderbird, and Dean Fretless Basses;
1987 Guild Nightbird, 2000 Taylor 310KCE, and Godin 5th Avenue Guitars.

If you can use one of those newfangled Internets, you can post photos in your damn classified ads. :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 7:05 am 
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"That's the way I got it" is really not a good excuse. The cartridge was described as it has just the broken stylus, nothing in the ad said that someone glued together the moving coils.


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 7:13 am 
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He just sold his reputation for a few $100!

I wouldn't do business with him (even if he now returned the money), nor with anyone supported his claim of not being responsible.


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 7:13 am 
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Hi, Dmiek / Robert,
We are authorized Lyra dealer, and I hope it will ease the tension here.

All Lyra cartridges, as long as it was purchased originally in North America, are eligible to trade in for exchange, regardless of age or condition. Exchange / Upgrade program is available to all Lyra cartridge owners, original or second hand, to exchange a cartridge for any new model currently in production.

For example:
The new Delos cartridge is $1650 retail, and with a broken Lyra cartridge in exchange, customer pays $1150 for a brand new Delos. There is $500 savings with this broken Helikon. The savings goes up with Kleos, Skala, and Titan.

If one of you gentleman would like to send me the serial number of the broken Helikon in private message, I'll be able to verify its origin with our distributor and work with you.

Edward

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Element Acoustics is dedicated to the highest quality reproduction of music and the people seeking it.
http://www.element-acoustics.ca


Last edited by elementacoustics on Thu May 05, 2011 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 7:15 am 
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Ouch, not good.

I know used product is used and comes with no warranty but if this were me I'd refund the buyer his money, buy him a beer for his troubles, and sleep well that night knowing that I did the right thing.

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A listening test comparing components is valid only when you are able to instantaneously switch between components which have been properly level matched and whose identities are unknown to you.


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 7:19 am 
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elementacoustics wrote:

All Lyra cartridges, as long as it was purchased originally in North America, are eligible to trade in for exchange, regardless of age or condition. Exchange / Upgrade program is available to all Lyra cartridge owners, original or second hand, to exchange a cartridge for any new model currently in production.


Looks like a great solution right there...


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 7:30 am 
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zhenya01 wrote:
elementacoustics wrote:

All Lyra cartridges, as long as it was purchased originally in North America, are eligible to trade in for exchange, regardless of age or condition. Exchange / Upgrade program is available to all Lyra cartridge owners, original or second hand, to exchange a cartridge for any new model currently in production.


Looks like a great solution right there...


Agree! I just hope that this "seller" doesn't try and squeeze another $225 out of the buyer now that he knows that it is worth $500 on a trade ... assuming of course, that it was purchased in North America.

_________________
1978 Rickenbacker 4001, 2010 Gibson Thunderbird, and Dean Fretless Basses;
1987 Guild Nightbird, 2000 Taylor 310KCE, and Godin 5th Avenue Guitars.

If you can use one of those newfangled Internets, you can post photos in your damn classified ads. :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 7:47 am 
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It's great to see that Ed has chimed in with some valuable info for the buyer!
It is an unfortunate circumstance, for sure. My one problem with this thread is that we've all pretty much ganged up on the seller. I mean, yes, it seems that he sold damaged goods to the buyer while knowing full well that it was damaged. It did state in the ad that it was damaged...
We do not really have anything but the buyers word that he got the cartridge in this state.
Could it be that the seller was honest in his description (no stylus) and then when the buyer got it, HE tried to glue it up and then realized he made a mess and sent it to SoundSmith? Then, when they wouldn't repair it, he came on here to try to win some sort of 'case' against the buyer?
We can't really say for sure, and there is no evidence on either side...All we can go on is the word of each of them. Since neither of them has a great involvement with CAM (seller has 14 posts, i can't see his feedback), how can we assume that he is the one telling the truth?
Just sayin'....
b


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 7:55 am 
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This is going to be interesting. The ad say "Lyra Helikon SL FOR EXCHANGE-NO STYLUS", therefore, was the OP selling the cartridge with the expectation of buyer taking advantage of Lyra's upgrade/trade in program? Assuming that the cartridge is eligible for trade in, does that change the buyer's position, or was it bought with the sole purpose of re-tipping?


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 7:59 am 
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It is highly unlikely that the buyer would have a cantilever to glue on. Isn't it more likely that the person who damaged it tried to fix it? Even if that wasn't the seller, the seller should go back to that person to make it right. It should not be up to the OP to make it right. There is too much of that mentality on eBay ... "sold untested", "unable to test", "bought from another seller" ... we don't need that here. Nobody would reasonably assume that someone would try a repair with glue.

_________________
1978 Rickenbacker 4001, 2010 Gibson Thunderbird, and Dean Fretless Basses;
1987 Guild Nightbird, 2000 Taylor 310KCE, and Godin 5th Avenue Guitars.

If you can use one of those newfangled Internets, you can post photos in your damn classified ads. :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:21 am 
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elementacoustics wrote:
Hi, Dmiek / Robert,
We are authorized Lyra dealer, and I hope it will ease the tension here.

All Lyra cartridges, as long as it was purchased originally in North America, are eligible to trade in for exchange, regardless of age or condition. Exchange / Upgrade program is available to all Lyra cartridge owners, original or second hand, to exchange a cartridge for any new model currently in production.

For example:
The new Delos cartridge is $1650 retail, and with a broken Lyra cartridge in exchange, customer pays $1150 for a brand new Delos. There is $500 savings with this broken Helikon. The savings goes up with Kleos, Skala, and Titan.

If one of you gentleman would like to send me the serial number of the broken Helikon in private message, I'll be able to verify its origin with our distributor and work with you.

Edward


I think we are remiss to make assumptions about either person's "intent" since none of us are mind readers and none of us actually witnessed the transaction go down.

The original ad said "missing stylus" and was sold "for exchange". Unless the buyer asked the question, "can this be re-tipped?", the seller described the cartridge correctly in my opinion and did nothing fraudulant.

As per Edward's post, this cartridge can still be exchanged for a new (not re-tipped) Lyra cartridge so I think someone should take advantage of that. The cartridge could be returned for refund, it could be re-sold or it could be traded in and offered for sale as a "new" cartridge. There are many options available.

[Edited for clarity]

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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:29 am 
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'nuf said :)
hear hear!


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 12:04 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, BC, CA
Thanks Edward, I'll be in touch to see what I can do. The glue is upsetting, but more upsetting is the fact the seller tells you different stories before and after you buy. Robert told me this was his friend's cartridge who used it for 2 years, then his daughter broke the stylus 7 months ago. After the the glue discovery, he tells me he bought it off Audiogon like this. If I was the seller, I would tell people I bought this broken off Audiogon and do not know the history. I wouldn't make up a story. And if I had know the history, I wouldn't be upset about the glue. So here's my 2 cents.

Anyways, lesson learned and time to move on.


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