Canuck Audio Mart Hifi and Audio ForumCanuck Audio Mart Hifi and Audio Forum
It is currently Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:30 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Forum rules


Feedback for dealers regarding experience OUTSIDE of CAM must go in the Dealer Feedback Forum.



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 145 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:14 pm
Posts: 709
Location: Boisbriand, QC, CA
OBI56 wrote:
dethrock wrote:
Am I missing something, or was this thread bumped after almost 3 years of inactivity?


Yes, you are missing something. This 7 year old thread was bumped 3 years ago and again a few days ago. And most of it is off-topic anyways.


8) I'd say it is still quite informative. The subject is still unclear after so many years and after all, CAM's classified site is one major attraction and important element of the whole website's popularity.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:10 am
Posts: 681
Location: hamilton, ON, CA
can not blame the guy for selling i had to stop holding items waiting for payment that never happened


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:34 am
Posts: 68
Location: Garson, ON, CA
I agree with the point made by amarquis; it's good to remind members that the more clear and explicit your terms of sale and purchase are, be you the seller or the buyer, the less the chances of misunderstandings (or offense) if the transaction does not work out.

Personally, I've been very fortunate in dealing with CAM members for my purchases, as I've usually bought items at a distance, living in Northern Ontario, and paying by money order, Paypal, or cash for the odd personal transaction. I honour my commitments to purchase, and have always been treated in kind by the sellers I've dealt with.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:25 am 
Offline
Premium User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:44 pm
Posts: 6126
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Philosophil wrote:
daren_p wrote:
In this case, I would run it by the mods. In order to leave feedback, you need to exchange funds, this did happens (but then the seller sent them back). Personally I would want the feedback listed as this is someone I would not deal with as he doesn't seem very ethical.

I don't pretend to speak for the Administration here but my sense is that many of its rules and guidelines rest upon and are intended to preserve certain well-established legal and ethical principles (and values).

There's a well-regarded moral principle that says you should never treat persons merely as a means to an end. The principle rests on a distinction between instrumental or use value (or 'utility' if you will) and intrinsic value, and affirms that all persons have intrinsic value over and above any use value they may have, and that you should respect the intrinsic value of persons (which is the primary basis for claims against slavery and so on).

This principle doesn't prevent anyone from getting utility value from others, it merely says that you should never reduce a person to his or her utility or use-value.

Principles that put things like 'sales,' viewed as ends or goals, ahead of people run the risk of violating this well-regarded ethical principle, for they encourage an attitude in which the end of accumulating sales becomes more important than the idea of treating people with respect.


Telling people up front what your policies are when it comes to an item being sold is treating people with respect!!!

For the rest of it...this is not a dating site!!! :roll:

_________________
I Put A Spell On You!!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:27 pm
Posts: 1400
Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
Philosophil wrote:
There's a well-regarded moral principle that says you should never treat persons merely as a means to an end. The principle rests on a distinction between instrumental or use value (or 'utility' if you will) and intrinsic value, and affirms that all persons have intrinsic value over and above any use value they may have, and that you should respect the intrinsic value of persons (which is the primary basis for claims against slavery and so on).

This principle doesn't prevent anyone from getting utility value from others, it merely says that you should never reduce a person to his or her utility or use-value.

Principles that put things like 'sales,' viewed as ends or goals, ahead of people run the risk of violating this well-regarded ethical principle, for they encourage an attitude in which the end of accumulating sales becomes more important than the idea of treating people with respect.


Excellent point Phil!!!

_________________
I've been warped by the rain, driven by the snow, drunk and dirty and don't cha know that I am still willin'


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:43 am
Posts: 2029
Location: Québec, QC, CA
Philosophil wrote:

Principles that put things like 'sales,' viewed as ends or goals, ahead of people run the risk of violating this well-regarded ethical principle, for they encourage an attitude in which the end of accumulating sales becomes more important than the idea of treating people with respect.



I have read somewhere that ethical principles are most likely to be under evaluated and misused in business relationship.

For many of us, they tend to admire people that have succeed whatever the cost was.... :shock:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:27 pm
Posts: 1400
Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
Genetic wrote:
Philosophil wrote:

Principles that put things like 'sales,' viewed as ends or goals, ahead of people run the risk of violating this well-regarded ethical principle, for they encourage an attitude in which the end of accumulating sales becomes more important than the idea of treating people with respect.



I have read somewhere that ethical principles are most likely to be under evaluated and misused in business relationship.

For many of us, they tend to admire people that have succeed whatever the cost was.... :shock:


May be people are not always fully aware of the costs? They just see the success.

_________________
I've been warped by the rain, driven by the snow, drunk and dirty and don't cha know that I am still willin'


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:17 am
Posts: 13879
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Genetic wrote:
Philosophil wrote:

Principles that put things like 'sales,' viewed as ends or goals, ahead of people run the risk of violating this well-regarded ethical principle, for they encourage an attitude in which the end of accumulating sales becomes more important than the idea of treating people with respect.



I have read somewhere that ethical principles are most likely to be under evaluated and misused in business relationship.

For many of us, they tend to admire people that have succeed whatever the cost was.... :shock:
Ethics as a business model is not considered ideal or successful by today's standards.

_________________
To a hammer, everything looks like a nail


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:11 pm
Posts: 1028
Location: Somewhere Way Out West
It would be nice if Phil clarified how the principle of never treat a person as a means to an end applies in this case.

It often amazes me that people assume that agreements on price on cash and carry sales create binding contracts. I'm not a lawyer, just a retired accountant, but best I know sales contracts aren't set until there is an exchange of consideration, ie money.

Now I agree perhaps the seller should be clear they expect payment before they will hold the goods for a buyer and preferably that is made clear, not vague as in "I have other people that are interested".

I haven't sold a lot of stuff on line but for almost every item I have sold lately I gotten phone calls or emails from interested parties saying they will be right over to pick it up or I will be over by a specific time and they did not show.

Sellers have to be able to protect their own interests & accept a sure offer.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:14 am 
Offline
Premium User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:44 pm
Posts: 6126
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
RalphH wrote:
It would be nice if Phil clarified how the principle of never treat a person as a means to an end applies in this case.

It often amazes me that people assume that agreements on price on cash and carry sales create binding contracts. I'm not a lawyer, just a retired accountant, but best I know sales contracts aren't set until there is an exchange of consideration, ie money.

Now I agree perhaps the seller should be clear they expect payment before they will hold the goods for a buyer and preferably that is made clear, not vague as in "I have other people that are interested".

I haven't sold a lot of stuff on line but for almost every item I have sold lately I gotten phone calls or emails from interested parties saying they will be right over to pick it up or I will be over by a specific time and they did not show.

Sellers have to be able to protect their own interests & accept a sure offer.


Exactly...and in a manner that is made clear to the potential buyer...i.e....not yours until it is paid for!!! 8)

_________________
I Put A Spell On You!!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:12 pm
Posts: 401
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
when you get the product after paying


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:41 am 
Offline
Premium User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:44 pm
Posts: 6126
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
xr4ti wrote:
when you get the product after paying


...as opposed to what...getting the product before paying??? :lol:

_________________
I Put A Spell On You!!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:12 pm
Posts: 401
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Voodoo Funk wrote:
xr4ti wrote:
when you get the product after paying


...as opposed to what...getting the product before paying??? :lol:

Hey there could be an endless debate involving verbal commitments and intentions. Blah, Blah , blah.
In the end every sale is complete when both parties receive money or product. Anything else is noise.
Simple questions deserve simple answers.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:17 am
Posts: 13879
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
xr4ti wrote:
when you get the product after paying
Good point. I'm still awaiting a needle I ordered before Cmas. Overseas vendor (eBay) supplied a tracking number but it's yet to be registered with Canada Post. Does this constitute a sale? I don't think so...

_________________
To a hammer, everything looks like a nail


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:48 am 
Offline
Premium User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:44 pm
Posts: 6126
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
xr4ti wrote:
Voodoo Funk wrote:
xr4ti wrote:
when you get the product after paying


...as opposed to what...getting the product before paying??? :lol:

Hey there could be an endless debate involving verbal commitments and intentions. Blah, Blah , blah.
In the end every sale is complete when both parties receive money or product. Anything else is noise.
Simple questions deserve simple answers.


Oh...I get it now...the 'deal' is complete between buyer and seller when the money and the product have both exchanged hands.

I agree with that... 8)

_________________
I Put A Spell On You!!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 145 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group