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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:09 am 
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Excellent post JGP.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:17 am 
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Tangram wrote:
OP,

All I would say is that respect is a two-way street. If you want to be treated with respect, lead by example. Dealers need to turn a profit. There is an opportunity cost to speaking with customers about expensive gear that they can't buy. So by all means, as a customer take up SOME of the salesperson's time but recognize that their time is equally as valuable as your own.

Posting a rant on a forum because you've been slighted isn't a good attitude to take if you wish to be respected.


Agree to disagree... Thanks for your input. If you want MY money your gonna have to treat me with respect and I don't care how valuable your time is.
I treat everyone with respect until I am disrespected which was the case here. I gotta say being new to the audiophile scene has really shed light on some of the interesting individuals on here... you included


Cheers

-- 09 Mar 2016 15:21 --

QuadESL63 wrote:
kawihornet wrote:
I had a rather unpleasant conversation and email with a dealer recently.
...
Nathan from Cambridge, Ont.


Hi Nathan,

Not every dealers are like that. In my not very long journey (20+ yrs.) in this hobby I have a mantra when I was treated poorly: don't take it personally. Just laugh it off and go elsewhere.



Good call! Just thought with the occurrence of this type of thread on the forums I wanted to shed some light to dealers. I understand they need to make money I really do. But no excuse to treat people like crap because their time is "to valuable" lol... One day I will drop a crap ton of money down on a really nice system. But it won't be with a dealer who has treated me poorly in the past.

-- 09 Mar 2016 15:25 --

JGP wrote:
Treat others as you would like done to yourself...right?

But seriously though, being in sales for 20 years has taught me its not obout being interesting, its about being interested. Showing empathy, being an active listener is key in customer service - the world of buisness has changed abit though & so has the average consumer. In buisness, you either get with it - or eventually, you get gone. There is very little loyality today - and, contrary to the beliefs of some...even if the customer is wrong, they are right - period.

We had an old saying in sales (or buisness)... "you can be so right that your dead right", yup - you lose regardless of being "right". Sure, you kept your pride, but pride don't pay the bills.

People are funny, I am funny...we all have our qwirks,...So, if you don't really love people (warts and all), get out of sales and customer service...go sell to chipmunks, a dog, or something else.

The experience economy we are in today is about "the experience in buying"...
It's not the old service economy of "wowing people" with what you know...They come expecting to be involved, and they expect you to listen and help when asked. The customer of today spends more time researching just about everything - good or bad, they often believe they know more than you as the retailer. Sure, they might not - buts its not about you, its about them. Do i want to recommend something thats not a fit to a customer, dispite their research? No,...but, if I build "like and trust" with my customer they generally want my opinion at some point and I'll make a healthy buisness of it, and - yup, get referrals - "the gold in sales."

Take Home Depo, the Apple Store, Starbucks to name a few, its about the experience when buying - I mean, why else pay 4 bucks for brown water? Different world. Get with it and you'll have happier customer and a happier cheque book. Don't and, well - eventually you'll miss the boat - regardless of the buisness your in.

I recently had a horrible experience with one of our dealers. I was called a SOB, a bleep'n so and so...the dealer kindly used his psych degree and assessed "I had emotional problems and was too sensitive"...I could go on, but - eventually I am sure he will be out of business too...

Overall, there are some good dealers and some bad dealers out there and it all comes down to the fact that we are dealing with people who have their own ideas, qwirks, warts, and personalities...The good dealers understand how to communicate with other people. Those ones will likely continue to get my business...

Fun topic no?



Excellent Post JGP and I'm gonna guess that with that type of sales mentality you do well in your line of work! Well done!

Cheers
Nathan

_________________
8) My View of me - Audiophile on a mission!!!
:roll: Wife's View of me - Audiophile on a budget!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:42 am 
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To me, audio shops, whether brick-and-mortar or online, reflect larger trends in our society.

Rudeness and ignorance, combined with smarmy, insincere PR about "customer service" are the norm now. Thinking is mostly short-term: this quarter, or maybe as far as next year.

No need to hire knowledgeable sales people; they might take issue with the boss or manager; they might even steer a customer toward less expensive items if that's what seems more appropriate for their needs. Hell, they might even talk audio for half-an-hour with a young person who doesn't have deep pockets fully aware that they're not going to buy anything—this time. Worse than that, they might even demo some gear for that person, even though they know full well that the most they're going to buy is recording cleaning brush or a disc.

It doesn't really much matter whether we're talking about audio gear, computers, automobiles, insurance, bicycles, real estate or anything else.

The unofficial, but reigning cultural—and especially business—policy for the last generation has emphasized selfishness, greed, and that classic "Bugger you, Jack, I'm all right" attitude.

In audio, as in other domains, transnational conglomerates have swallowed most of the formerly independent, and innovative, companies. Accountants reign, not designers or engineers.

So, in sum, it would be surprising if the audio retailing industry were somehow immune from major business and economic trends.

In my case, way back in ancient times (early 1970s), I probably spent a total of thirty or forty hours, spread over a dozen visits, chatting with sales people and auditioning equipment before I bought my first system (which cost 525.00 1971 dollars). That was the norm then. And—no surprise!—I'm still doing business with the same retailer who sold me that first system, even though I've lived 2000 km away since the late 1970s.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:00 am 
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kawihornet wrote:
I had a rather unpleasant conversation and email with a dealer recently.

After going through some threads, you can see and read for your self that a lot of us young budget Audiophile peeps are not being treated very we'll or respectfully. I want to remind all Audio Dealers that we have young families and are fresh into our careers and maybe we don't have tons of cash to spend right now. But one day our kids will be done university and our houses will be paid for and we will be looking to fork out some serious $$$ for some new high end gear! and Let me remind you - WE WILL REMEMBER how we were treated. So if you want to stay in business for a while maybe show some patience and better yet show some freaking respect to your customers - rich or poor.


Rant over thanks...
Lord willing When I have lots of money I will spend it elsewhere.


Cheers
Nathan from Cambridge, Ont.

[EDIT BY Mod: First paragraph edited to comply with feedback rules]


I find most dealers are quite friendly on this site. The ones that are not, and I have only come across maybe 2 in five years, only hear from me once. They lose contact/business with me and anyone else I would have referred to them. Ah, the high cost of doing business and all you have to be is nice, non-assuming and patient. Chances are the customer knows far more about certain things than the audio dealer but doesn't try to point that out. Rudeness and ignorance has cause some private "dealers" much lost business as well. One of them has a name that reminds me of summers on the hill in the country. This person is the epitome of scumbag entitlement to the point of being disillusional.


Last edited by Musicware4u on Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:48 am 
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20-somethings in general could benefit greatly from talking a lot less and listening a lot more. It might come as a huge shock, but you don't know as much as you think you do. None of us did when we were 20.[/quote]

Ah yes. The ignorance of an elder :wink: Perhaps the debate of boomers and old boomers vs millennials should stay off this board but since you mentioned it I feel I need to reply.

A lot of older audiophiles think they know it all and have seen it all and that's fine for them to think so. Technology is moving so fast i'd wager my kid has a better grasp of how to adapt to new tech than most folks over 55 do. New technology will replace old and that in turn will be replaced.

Quadzilla sounds not unlike a older gentleman I knew who insisted that old school planes were the end all and be all of flight. That said, new planes require massive amounts of computerized correction to fly...and they fly much much better than the older planes regardless of ones opinion. Being a die hard class A fan and resisting any form of DSP I am now starting to come around. I believe one day that class D/DSP etc will far surpass what we have now. It is inevitable with the rise of cheap and powerful computing.

Some of the smartest and most innovative people on this planet are in their 20s (what's the average age of the real innovators in google, apple, spaceX etc...not 55-60) and yes these 20-somethings do know a great deal.

I'm just saying that to write ones knowledge off solely because they are in their 20s is dangerous, as dangerous as thinking that just because you are old you know it all.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:17 am 
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I don't think the point is that some one knows more because they are older. Hifi is pretty technical and you need to be in your mid twenties to have finished your basic technical education (engineering, technologist, technician) and then work for a while to understand this stuff reasonable well. You then need a bit of experience to correlate it to what you are hearing versus a reviewer or whatever source of info you are relying on.

Most of us are still learning in the hobby, even after many years/decades and especially from each other in places like CAM.

And while many new tech firms may be run by young people, most are not businesses in the sense that they make money/provide an ROI. The ones that do often have some more experienced engineering and finance guys working there too :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:02 am 
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A few years ago I was in a hifi store in Winnipeg and the salesman acted like I was wasting his time. He sure got a lot nicer when I mentioned I was selling my Klipschorns to fund a new audio purchase. By then I was on my way out anyway thanks to his attitude.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:21 am 
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I think there are generational gaps in all aspects of buying and selling regardless of the product category being reviewed.

Everything evolves! The product changes, and so do the buyers. It would be naïve of any of us to think (let alone suggest) that the buyer change their methods to work better with the seller. The only real working solution is for the sellers to change and must be able to adapt to the style of client they are serving at the time. They can be old school when dealing with someone over 30-40+, but must be ready to deal with the different buying etiquette of those at a younger age. If they cannot adapt, they will die (....only question being whether it's slow, or immediate depending on their business).

Teens and twenty something's want their information fast, they want the best price, and they don't want any politics or mind games thrust upon them. Many (not all) come from an educational system that tells them they are all strong, capable, bright, and rarely wrong. Many are rewarded for providing half efforts and for some, that becomes their idea of good performance, and their stretch targets aren't much higher.

If you sell audio and you're lucky enough to get a teen or twenty something into your store, you would be foolish not to do your best to appeal to them, even if they come off as ignorant or arrogant. It doesn't cost a store owner a lot to smile, to listen, and to share a few words of wisdom. With this group, the less said the better. Rather than telling them what they don't know and possibly getting into an argument, sit them in front of an affordable system that may impress the hell out of them and let the music and the equipment do the selling for you. If they like what they hear, you may have a customer today, tomorrow, or for life. If they do not like what they hear, chances are they may not have ever come back again anyway. You really have nothing to lose, if you happen to be one of the retailers we so often hear about that need to change.

Saying that, there are many excellent retailers out there, and they probably do well because they have made the change already, or never needed to in the first place.


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