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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:32 pm 
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Working in the industry as a sales consultant I have become ruthless in my qualifing of people, as any proffesional would be so engaged in a trade where literally time=money. Because today some clients out and out lie about their intentions (yes, I know how could someone be this much of a creep) and others seem to have this mistaken belief that they are entitled to my time without obligation(always wonderd if we charged a $40/hr consult fee if this free spending of other peoples time might not be so freely engaged in)... I usually like to ask said minded individuals what they do for a living and ask them if they would mind doing it for free, repeatedly... That being said, I have nothing against the internet (obiviously) if the deal is right, buy it! Just don't attempt to use my time and resources to help you unless your buying it from me. :shock: Or for God sake just be upfront! A little integrity goes along way! :D


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:29 pm 
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To me, there is a easy fix - charge for time at say $85/hr (that's what a trade person, like a plumber would charge, right?) and that money goes toward purchasing should the person decides to buy.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:56 pm 
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If you charge $85 per you will never make a sale...no different than if I were to charge for a quote to do your renovation...I would have my ass handed to me whilst being kicked out the door. There are some scenarios when charging is possible for me , design build contracts would be an example but this is the exception not the rule.

This is a snapshot into modern small business. As the business person we are going to have to find another way to capture our clients...and there are many. It will still never mitigate the tire kickers and disingenuous arse's that consistently stroll through and vaporize our time. This becomes an criticle part of the calculation of ones overhead.

It is no coincidence that some of the best retail buying experiences come from stores that are incredibly well put together, and I am not referring just to the store itself...company polices, employee selection and attitudes, branding , a red carpet treatment in which ever way is appropriate to the business at hand. Please let us not forget that all of us in business are there to serve others...end of. That some of the people we try to serve are impossible comes with the territory.

I get that a retailer can come across some frustrations with this and the ever looming internet sales but , and as I said earlier we have to captivate this client from second one using what ever we can to do so....in the end its about closing a deal like it or not that is all there is. If a retailer can make the experience pleasant than this is what resonates in the long run. I still stand on the statement I made earlier that the audio business is no more entitled to special considerations here as it is the retailer that is there to serve, with an open door, to the public 5-6 days a week...with that comes all that is good or bad.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:06 pm 
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I would imagine that things are easier for consumers buying nowadays than say in the 90s when (at least in my area) HiFi shops may have flourished. I can think of several I had gone to in my early teens that are no shut down. I would imagine that the internet has made this a lot worse for dealers. I feel bad for them. I often go to one shop to look around, sometimes buy things, but look for a deal (demo models and such) at a discount. Often talking with those that work there to tell them what I already have owned and where purchased. Originally I had bought a lot of new gear there, but lately have been buying used! Especially things like cables! Much cheaper to buy used and something that likely isn't broken!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:14 pm 
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Audition involves the used of facility (could be expensive real estate), the used of expensive equipment, and typically involves some form of consultation, and of course time.

Quotation for renovation is a little different, and I for sure will not give my business to the person that charges for a quote for renovation.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:41 pm 
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I wonder how many final invoices for renovation ever come anywhere near what was quoted....

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:45 pm 
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Che Cavolo wrote:
I wonder how many final invoices for renovation ever come anywhere near what was quoted....


If the contractor has his chit together and knows what he's doing shouldn't be a problem :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:07 pm 
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Dilbert wrote:
Audition involves the used of facility (could be expensive real estate), the used of expensive equipment, and typically involves some form of consultation, and of course time.

Quotation for renovation is a little different, and I for sure will not give my business to the person that charges for a quote for renovation.


Ahhhh...I wondered how long it would take for this comment to come out that there really wasnt a similarity....please be careful here in the use of the word "contractor"...I can assure that some of us Have vastly more invested in our business than a pick up truck and some tools...vastly more

And for the record just how long do you think it takes to prepare an accurate quotation for a large scale kitchen reno as an example....estimate on the demo,design services, permits, the rebuild, the floor, the cabinets, the electrical, the plumbing, the counters, the lighting , the painting, the collateral surface protection, waste management, general labour , skilled carpentry and misc. everything.....your into a solid 15-20 hours with absolutely no gaurantee that you have the job or the information you give is handed over to a competitor.....Sound familiar at all?

Bear in mind that like the audio guy our customers are seeing discounted fixture and related products on line that we dont even get a chance to sell them any more ( we used to buy these types of things wholesale , put a reasonable mark up on it and still best full retail price)

business is business and your better contractors have an immense investment to be sure.

As to the point of the quote and the actual cost aligning with each other ...well that is another story and exactly why you want a professional to handle your project...that said the vast majority of extras are created by changes from the customer and uncontrollable issues and discoveries behind the customers walls that the same customer was not will to pay us to do an investigation on to ensure accuracy of the quote.

point is every business is tough, no exception and the internet certainly hasn't done any of us any favors.....so you find other ways simple as that


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:41 pm 
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Quote:
As to the point of the quote and the actual cost aligning with each other ...well that is another story and exactly why you want a professional to handle your project...that said the vast majority of extras are created by changes from the customer and uncontrollable issues and discoveries behind the customers walls that the same customer was not will to pay us to do an investigation on to ensure accuracy of the quote.


I expect that my final cost (on a home reno job) will be higher than the quote. Living in a 1950s house, I expect to find problems once we start ripping walls out. This is usually the case. A good contractor shows me the problem and explains what needs to be done and the additional costs involved. If everyone goes in with "good will" and assumes that the "unexpected" WILL happen, then the problems can be resolved.

I also hire a designer, who helps me make the choices and plans things out separately from the contractor. I find the small extra cost of a good designer well worth it. You get to think about what you want, without worrying about the cost details at the same time. Once you are sure of what you want, then get a contractor. The quotes tend to be more accurate.

Same goes for audio or cars. Do your research. Think about it. Is this really what you want? Or is it merely "shiny"? Think about it some more. Do more research...with the internet, this is easy. I find I make better choices this way.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:09 pm 
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Vinyl Guy wrote:
Quote:
As to the point of the quote and the actual cost aligning with each other ...well that is another story and exactly why you want a professional to handle your project...that said the vast majority of extras are created by changes from the customer and uncontrollable issues and discoveries behind the customers walls that the same customer was not will to pay us to do an investigation on to ensure accuracy of the quote.


I expect that my final cost (on a home reno job) will be higher than the quote. Living in a 1950s house, I expect to find problems once we start ripping walls out. This is usually the case. A good contractor shows me the problem and explains what needs to be done and the additional costs involved. If everyone goes in with "good will" and assumes that the "unexpected" WILL happen, then the problems can be resolved.

I also hire a designer, who helps me make the choices and plans things out separately from the contractor. I find the small extra cost of a good designer well worth it. You get to think about what you want, without worrying about the cost details at the same time. Once you are sure of what you want, then get a contractor. The quotes tend to be more accurate.

Same goes for audio or cars. Do your research. Think about it. Is this really what you want? Or is it merely "shiny"? Think about it some more. Do more research...with the internet, this is easy. I find I make better choices this way.


you my good sir would be a good customer...especially the independent designer, I encourage this.
Not sure how that can relate to the audio dealer but all relevant points in my business


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:35 pm 
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One of the ways that some B&M retailers have distanced themselves from the Internet retailers is with installation and integration services. Though this mostly applies to the HT and home automation parts of the business, they also apply to the high end where acoustic treatments, room measuring and tweaking are things that most buyers are just not able or have time to do themselves. Sure, they can buy their gear off the Internet cheaper but getting everything put together and working is something they eventually have to pay someone else to do and often at a much higher overall end cost.

On site or in shop warranty or out of warranty service is another way that some dealers differentiate themselves. Imagine buying a 60" flat screen TV off the internet and having a problem with it 3 months down the road only to be told that you have to return it to the importer .... in California with shipping/customs at your cost and that it should only take a month or 2 before you see it back. That $50 savings goes away pretty darn fast especially when the local dealer would have come in the next day and fixed it on the spot or given you a loaner until yours was fixed.

Smaller, commodity type items are a different story of course, but you get the gist.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:11 pm 
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waxwings wrote:
Working in the industry as a sales consultant I have become ruthless in my qualifing of people, as any proffesional would be so engaged in a trade where literally time=money. Because today some clients out and out lie about their intentions (yes, I know how could someone be this much of a creep) and others seem to have this mistaken belief that they are entitled to my time without obligation(always wonderd if we charged a $40/hr consult fee if this free spending of other peoples time might not be so freely engaged in)... I usually like to ask said minded individuals what they do for a living and ask them if they would mind doing it for free, repeatedly... That being said, I have nothing against the internet (obiviously) if the deal is right, buy it! Just don't attempt to use my time and resources to help you unless your buying it from me. :shock: Or for God sake just be upfront! A little integrity goes along way! :D


How does a buyer go about qualifying the sales consultant though? They could easily be inexperienced or indifferent or just plain incompetent - thus time wasters giving out bad advice and steering the customer in the wrong direction. Qualifying of people means judging them and is easily picked up by those being "qualified". There may be a tiny bit of truth to the statement that there are no bad customers, just bad salesmen who don't know how to build a relationship... (even with a tire kicker who may remember the kindness and come back with money to spend at a later time)


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:00 am 
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Not sure how that can relate to the audio dealer but all relevant points in my business


Certainly more related to the construction/ home reno business, but in terms of audio I would make the following suggestions: Bring a friend along when you go to listen; discuss your choices with your friend & take your time to consider what you are buying. This assumes you have friends :lol: :wink: and they have an interest in audio. Their experiences will be different than yours and their input can be helpful. Once you have narrowed the field, discuss the options with the dealer. But in the end let your ears decide.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:56 am 
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I see the problem from a different perspective. To me it's a problem created by the manufacturers. If they sell their products to every willy-nilly re-seller and e-tailer with no controls like minimum sales price or minimum advertised pricing this will never end.
Paradigm is a company that sets a reasonable example, their lower lines can be bought online, their next lines can't but have a wide distribution with price controls, and they pick and choose which retailers gets to sell their premium line and monitor them. If I'm in the high end dealer game I want to partner up with companies like that and not the former.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:27 am 
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meraklya wrote:
waxwings wrote:
Working in the industry as a sales consultant I have become ruthless in my qualifing of people, as any proffesional would be so engaged in a trade where literally time=money. Because today some clients out and out lie about their intentions (yes, I know how could someone be this much of a creep) and others seem to have this mistaken belief that they are entitled to my time without obligation(always wonderd if we charged a $40/hr consult fee if this free spending of other peoples time might not be so freely engaged in)... I usually like to ask said minded individuals what they do for a living and ask them if they would mind doing it for free, repeatedly... That being said, I have nothing against the internet (obiviously) if the deal is right, buy it! Just don't attempt to use my time and resources to help you unless your buying it from me. :shock: Or for God sake just be upfront! A little integrity goes along way! :D


How does a buyer go about qualifying the sales consultant though? They could easily be inexperienced or indifferent or just plain incompetent - thus time wasters giving out bad advice and steering the customer in the wrong direction. Qualifying of people means judging them and is easily picked up by those being "qualified". There may be a tiny bit of truth to the statement that there are no bad customers, just bad salesmen who don't know how to build a relationship... (even with a tire kicker who may remember the kindness and come back with money to spend at a later time)
You, are missing the point entirely. And a "good" salesman qualifies very quickly and very completely. This thread is not about tire kickers, I welcome them because they are customers that just haven't bought yet. It is about the low life who abuses the bick and mortar facility to make his or her's online purchase and feels self intititled enough to use up someone else's time. And please, please qualify your sales consultant!!!! That is how long relationships start! I've been in retail for some 30yrs. It is always my goal to be avaliable for those who have a genuine desire to purchase the product I offer. This can be kinda difficult if I'm busy showing said product in full demo to someone who has NO intention of purchasing anything from me. It is really quiet simple, to get good service be a good customer. 1.) If the store closes at 6pm do not show up at 5:49pm unannounced and want to demo half a dozen turntables or show up with 2hrs of material to demo speakers... Oddly we also have lives and families. Give respect and you will recieve it. 2.)If your shopping online, get your advice online. 3.) If you don't understand what it is like to live on commission, try it. I guarentee your prespective will change. 4.) If your tire kicking and walk into a store, with 4 staff members and there are 10 customers in the store, use a little common sense. 5.)Most stores have websites and a phone number, make an appointment, if you need special circumstances let them know (try THAT with amazon!). All in all, be a grown up, have some personal honour, and be honest about your needs and goals. Too much to ask? Regards.


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