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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:40 pm 
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Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
Audiofils wrote:
While I feel the pain for brick-and-mortar dealers, how many of us support Uber inste‎ad of the heavily taxed and burden Taxis? How many test drive cars at dealer and buy the same used?
Also, would the outcome be better for the dealer if the shopper had purchased from another dealer willing to go lower?
Internet is here to stay, better get used to it. Or have the balls to charge for auditions....‎


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:26 pm 
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Location: Mont St-Hilaire, QC, CA
ADCO wrote:
I understand the retailers sense of frustration , I really do,but I'm far from feeling sorry for him/her...I have been a residential and commercial contractor for 30 years, it would be impossible to articulate how many times I have gone into peoples homes, consulted, solved design issues, budgeted and quoted only to find out that it was going to the "brother in law" or some such thing all along....or some variant of this tale...trust me this takes several hours not two or three.
Its just business, you wanna know why a professional contractor is expensive....because we burn so much time on quotes we never get...I fail to see the difference or why the audio business should have some special consideration here. If business were easy everyone would do it, if risk was easy to take everyone would take it, if closing a deal were easy we would all be rich....

I genuinely feel this guys pain but he or anyone else in any other business has to constantly adapt, and I mean constantly or fail....straight up


Exactly my toughts. This is business and in my business, I've done numerous quotes to find out that the competion got the deal because they cut the prices. Worse.. I saw some of my ideas in those quotes published by other products ( I work in media )... Free creative!!! I totally understand the OP's point but dont make me cry.

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Last edited by Yippedidou on Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:27 pm 
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Location: Surrey , BC, CA
agree...I think there should be charge for audition if you are there for more then just 10 minutes listenning session...


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:30 pm 
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Location: West GTA, ON, CA
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I genuinely feel this guys pain but he or anyone else in any other business has to constantly adapt, and I mean constantly or fail....straight up


I agree. Retail is much tougher than it was 20 or 30 years ago. The good dealers/ distributors work hard at it, they innovate and they stay up to date. I have seen some businesses that still do everything with pen & paper! :shock: That is OK, if the guy is 70+ years old, but is unacceptable in anyone younger! Clearly using pen & paper when a computer can do it better & faster is a recipe for failure.

At the same time, some customers are jerks. Heck, I see it at the deli counter with people arguing over ONE GRAM of cold cuts! :shock: :roll: These people are not worth the effort.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:19 pm 
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Location: London, ON, CA
It's a complicated conundrum really, the consumer has all the power here, as the consumer does in every business ... Even the definition of what a consumer ( or customer if you will) has been warped into a confusing combination of self researched , carefully tactful and deal oriented beast that is very hard to interact with let alone pin down long enough to close a sale.
As an interesting side, one of my companies is involved with two specific franchised based business, that is to say we develope and build their stores. In both these cases the market place they do business in is extremely competitive and the amount , and type of innovative ways that are used to A) capture the attention of the customer and B) sustain the relationship long enough that the deal becomes less about the money involved and more about the experience is absolutely fascinating.
Interior design flow, colours, emotions evocked by the colours ,lighting , artwork , ambient temperature of the room as well as the type and design of furniture, display cases etc all play a role in this innovation to create a better experience than the competitor . Think Apple Stores for a sense of this type of brilliance as it relates to their brand. Their is a continuity in these type of stores that is prolific and structured.... People love structure, it's easy to understand, knowingly or not.
How this relates specifically to an audio dealer is the same as every business, that is to say the need to create an atmosphere that the customer experience is so engaging that it is easier to capture that customer long enough to present your case... Will it stop the window shopping, not likely, but that's just business


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:05 am 
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Location: Thornton, ON, CA
I am guilty of this concept of show rooming...it was not intentional, mostly.

I was looking for new speakers (as we all do at some point while growing into this hobby) and stopped into the Toronto audio, home of the audiophile....I think that is the name of the store, north of the GTA. About 2hrs before closing.

The salesman sat me down and played Patricia Barber, taste of honey. Pass labs x150 amp, Gershman avant grade RX20 speakers. Also, about 50g worth of cables and digital gear.

I was in love! I spent the the next two hours talking and listening - same song, about 12 times :-)

The system was absolutely the best I have ever heard...I couldn't afford any of the kit - speakers 6500, amp about the same, cables 6k, pre 15k, cdp 10k, DAC 10k, power conditioner 5k....you get the idea.

I had taken 2hrs of the salesman's time, and the owner, very polite, as well....I said, I must buy something...so they sold me a compliation CD for 35bucks...it had Patricia Barber's song that I loved, taste of honey. These two gentlemen were the nicest they could be, I have since seen them at TAaVES, and the owner introduced me to the Gershman speaker manufacture...they had SWAN hooked to XA60s, again the sound was amazing, so easy to listen to and yet emotional.


Anyway...I bought used RX20s from the Montreal audio show, and used passlabs X2.2 pre, and X250 amp from a guy in Alberta... Both from CAM listings. I can't thank the dealer enough for the two hour education, and I hope to buy something from them soon. I have not replicated the exact sound from that first day, but it is close :-)

I am just a normal shopper who loves the best gear made, but can only afford second best.

Confession over.

Peace out.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:35 am 
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Location: longueuil, QC, CA
My entire system has been bought used, what worth around 7000$ I paid 4000$ for it , I made my homework and made sure I was buying with the option of coming back if something was wrong, but nothing , everything ride nicely !

In fact I don't like most audio dealers and I don't want to buy from them , and I don't go at their stores wasting their times too


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:29 am 
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Location: chateauguay, QC, CA
I recently bought an Ortofon 2M Black. Researched pricing online at all the usual interweb suppliers. Then I went to all my usual Montreal area B&M retailers,stating clearly that whoever gives me the best quote gets the sale. Got a better price here than online.This seems to be the case more and more often when you take into consideration the exchange rate,shipping etc. And if,heaven forbid,a warranty issue arises,I have far more confidence in getting support from the local guy. Personally,I much prefer face to face dealings than clicking the ''add to cart'' button. Might be an age-related thing though... 8)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:13 am 
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I try to support the local B&Ms, sometimes I find it challenging to do so. A couple of recent examples:

- I wanted to buy a specific entry-level model AVR from a popular brand. MSRP was around $400 and at the time, it was not commonly available online. I would have happily paid MSRP to pick one up locally. I visited both local dealers. Neither had that particular model in stock. They only carried models that were substantially higher up the product line....costing 2-3x more. I could see these dealers not carrying entry-level lines if they were widely available online or through big-box vendors. However, at the time, this brand was only carried through local dealers. The impression I got was that the dealers only wanted to cater to the high-end customer and had no interest in the entry-level market. To make matters worse, I tried to purchase a unit from an Ottawa dealer had advertised sale pricing on CAM (even offered to pay shipping).....and they would not sell into Alberta in order to protect the local dealer market. This effectively forced me into another AVR brand that was offered by the local big-boxes.

- A couple of years ago, was in a position to make a substantial upgrade to the speakers in my main rig and had decided to buy new. I had narrowed down my short list to models offered by Tannoy and Reference 3A. At the time, neither line was represented any local dealers in the Calgary-area. I ended up taking advantage of Ref 3A's home demo program and purchased my Episodes directly from the manufacturer.....


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:36 am 
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Going to the other side of this subject I recently had an experience where I was wanting to buy new speakers. I went to several dealers and listened to several brands. In one case the dealer was "too busy" chatting with his coworker to bother and in the other 2 cases the dealers were so condescending when I told them the sound was just not right for me. They tried to imply that their's was the best and perhaps I was not listening closely enough, they tried to make me feel like I didn't know what I was looking for and they were the experts. One even suggested that the lower the price compared to his was inferior.

All this drove me online to DIY, their loss. Compared to the time I lost with these dealers the shipping and customs was insignificant.


Mike


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:01 am 
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I've tried to buy local much as possible however what I have and desire at this point cannot even be found here. The short answer typically is for the onesy twosy's setting up dealerships and things of that nature it's hardly worth the time/effort...I get it, no animosity either way that's just business.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:04 am 
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selkirk wrote:
I try to support the local B&Ms, sometimes I find it challenging to do so. A couple of recent examples:

- I wanted to buy a specific entry-level model AVR from a popular brand. MSRP was around $400 and at the time, it was not commonly available online. I would have happily paid MSRP to pick one up locally. I visited both local dealers. Neither had that particular model in stock. They only carried models that were substantially higher up the product line....costing 2-3x more. I could see these dealers not carrying entry-level lines if they were widely available online or through big-box vendors. However, at the time, this brand was only carried through local dealers. The impression I got was that the dealers only wanted to cater to the high-end customer and had no interest in the entry-level market. To make matters worse, I tried to purchase a unit from an Ottawa dealer had advertised sale pricing on CAM (even offered to pay shipping).....and they would not sell into Alberta in order to protect the local dealer market. This effectively forced me into another AVR brand that was offered by the local big-boxes.

- A couple of years ago, was in a position to make a substantial upgrade to the speakers in my main rig and had decided to buy new. I had narrowed down my short list to models offered by Tannoy and Reference 3A. At the time, neither line was represented any local dealers in the Calgary-area. I ended up taking advantage of Ref 3A's home demo program and purchased my Episodes directly from the manufacturer.....


Since I will likely spend 60% more, at least, and I'm being kind when I say 60% less to get the sound I want, buying vintage audio or at least used makes more sense. that's because I'm knowledgeable about audio, (over 40 years interest in audio; ultimately music of course). Most sales reps won't be able to offer me anything and I have no reason to waste their time or mine, so I don't. I have not bought new audio retail for over 35 years. The way I see it, that's why CAM exists for me- to buy used audio. For those people that are not knowledgeable, don't know what they want etc.. retail is a way to get educated. How the store employee treats the customer determines whether a transaction will take place. Some stores are condescending, impatient, entitled and just plain snobby.

I have not had to deal with any of that for over 35 years. 8) DIY rules


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:03 pm 
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as I see it, if you have zero intention of buying from any business,
then you really have no business being there....................


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:42 pm 
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All this drove me online to DIY, their loss.


I think we have all had that experience. Some dealers are PITA, as are some customers. I could go on about the bad dealers I have dealt with. However, being in a large urban area these particular dealers went out of business several years ago. I have seen both sides, just by standing around any retail store for a period of time.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:00 pm 
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Location: Edmonton, AB, CA
THIS - is a good thread - we're reading. (As we hope the rest of the dealers are as well)

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