Canuck Audio Mart Hifi and Audio ForumCanuck Audio Mart Hifi and Audio Forum
It is currently Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:34 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:13 am 
Offline
Manufacturer/Sponsor
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:48 pm
Posts: 6223
Location: Nepean, ON, CA
For those of you not on Facebook.............

This was a post made by an audio dealer, his name is Mike Twomey.
I thought it was very well written/spelled out, and sums up an all too common situation in the marketplace, be it past, present, or future.
He granted permission to post here.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I had an interesting conversation with someone Saturday. He spent three hours here listening to a high performance system. This was the second time here. The first time was 2 hours. At the end of Saturday's session, he informs me that he can get a used pair cheaper on the internet. I understand the concept of leverage in negotiation. It's not lost on me. I did the usual things explaining that he actually got to hear the speakers here and that they come with a warranty and we set them up as part of the cost.
But what got me were the stereotypes (sorry) that came out during this discussion.

1) "you dealers make a fortune" really? I know many many dealers across this country. I do not know many "making a fortune". There are a couple..yes for sure. They are blessed with a great local economy, good location and they work their a**es off and they've been doing it for a long long time. Most dealers I know are creative hard working people who go out of their way time and again to please their customers. Becoming part of the proverbial 1% is not part of the equation.

2) "there's not much danger buying used speakers off the internet" wow..Dealing with a total stranger on any of the internet sites without having heard the speakers is a total crap shoot IMHO. You never know how the speakers were treated and if there is any damage to them. And if there is...what is your recourse? ...not much.

3) "you dealers don't have to pay for your gear on display. These are free to you" This is patently false. Every dealer that I know has had to invest a considerable amount in demo gear. Are there exceptions? Perhaps but none that I know of. The manufacturers do not dole out free gear to the dealers. That's called the expressway to bankruptcy.
The net is this. Your local dealer is an asset and should be rewarded with your business if they earn it and add true value to you and the entire listening experience
"Nuff said

_________________
UNITY AUDIO


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:10 am
Posts: 678
Location: hamilton, ON, CA
buying new or used speakers on internet is a big gamble i had a friend who had a high end shop for 10 years he never got nothing for free in fact some of his suppliers he dealt with required him to purchase a x amount of product before they would ship it to him which was in the thousands of dollars.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:49 pm
Posts: 169
Location: Telkwa, BC
In my late teens and early twenties I worked in sporting goods stores and experienced the exact same thing. We could work with someone for an hour or two trying on hockey skates, ski boots, running shoes, etc. and when it was all said and done they would say "what kind of deal are you going to give me?" They were seldom our regular customers, just strangers off the street who expect a deal wherever they go. They would end up leaving to buy on-line for 10% less.

The kicker, they would then come in to have their skates sharpened or they ski boots heated and bindings adjusted and we would charge them regular labour rates for the work. If they had bought from us, we would have waived the fees and they would have spent the same amount of money in the end. We would even tell customers what they would get for free if they bought from us, but they wouldn't listen.

They could care less about the jobs, tax dollars and sponsorships that were supporting the community, they just wanted to save $40.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:21 am
Posts: 52
Location: cambridge, ON, CA
I dont think its fair for people to waste a dealers time then buy used .


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:22 am
Posts: 19
Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
2) "there's not much danger buying used speakers off the internet" wow..Dealing with a total stranger on any of the internet sites without having heard the speakers is a total crap shoot IMHO. You never know how the speakers were treated and if there is any damage to them. And if there is...what is your recourse? ...not much.

I totally agree with points 1 and 3. However I do have concern with the absoluteness of point 2. CAM is a testament to how well audio transactions can be done when both the buyer and the seller are in good standing (verified by the feedback feature). Yes there is more chance that something will go amiss, but as long as the seller and buyer are hones,t contentious issues usually get satisfactorily resolved.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:50 pm 
Offline
Premium User
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:36 pm
Posts: 3644
Location: Vernon, BC, CA
highendfan wrote:
2) "there's not much danger buying used speakers off the internet" wow..Dealing with a total stranger on any of the internet sites without having heard the speakers is a total crap shoot IMHO. You never know how the speakers were treated and if there is any damage to them. And if there is...what is your recourse? ...not much.

I totally agree with points 1 and 3. However I do have concern with the absoluteness of point 2. CAM is a testament to how well audio transactions can be done when both the buyer and the seller are in good standing (verified by the feedback feature). Yes there is more chance that something will go amiss, but as long as the seller and buyer are hones,t contentious issues usually get satisfactorily resolved.


Agreed. In addition to this many dealers will allow in home demos and you might end up getting gear that has seen more short term owners than something used from CAM.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 5:42 pm
Posts: 1450
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
"Showrooming" is a curse of the modern retailer.. it is rampant,.. particularly in PC(laptop,etc) sales.. they go into BestBuy, scope out the model they want.. go online to buy at a discounted price.. but then, when it doesn't work right,.. or they have an issue, it becomes a bigger headache.
I think one of the real darksides about all of this "new consumerism" is that often times, buyers are left with little choice but to buy something online, as fewer bricks and mortar retailers can afford to stock large amounts of inventory, or particular models.. what is the point in supporting the retailer, when they tell you "I can get that for you in about 2 weeks.... " umm WTF?? I can order something via an online retailer and have it here in 3-5 days.
So... there has to be a REAL value added piece to supporting the Bricks and Mortar retailer.. it doesn't do me any good to go to a retailer that is supposed to carry a brand.. and be told.. "oh.. we'd have to order that one in for you... " and they wonder why you leave the store, and go home.. sit in the comfort of your home.. not deal with traffic... etc. and get the same thing sent to you in less time at 15% less cost than waiting for an order that you would still have to go pick up ...
Now.. specialist audio is a bit different, because many components are high $ value.. and expecting a store to sit on stock of $10k amplifiers and $30k is a bit rich.. particularly when some models change rather frequently, or develop a mild revision to X.3 status.. etc.
I'm all for online retailing.. for SOME THINGS.. it's far less headache... however, when it comes to specialty product, I still prefer to go to a retail store.. get served properly.. get a FAIR deal (hey.. I know you've got overhead.. and like to eat !) but.. just don't expect an unrealistic fulfillment chain.. that part is a bit off in today's logistic world.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:52 pm
Posts: 1005
Location: Montreal, QC, CA
Sadly, that scenario is played out in all markets and not restricted to audio. Tough times for B&M retailers for sure.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:05 pm
Posts: 723
Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
This post says it all. I never buy used when I can go to the dealer for all the reasons mentioned here. The only time I internet shop is for items I know are no longer in the retail circle or are just too far away to go and buy personally. I have another hobby where buying items I want is impossible in Canada as there is just not the demand for a store to stock it here and make any money off it. But I always find things to buy in the local stores to support them and occasionally they order things in for me that they can get a hold of.

When I buy from a store I always accept the price the store sets and I never ask for deals. In many cases these stores offer other deals in the way of service or upgrades (trade in policies).

Heck even when buying a car I always tell the salesman I am just looking when they offer a test drive. I hate wasting their time when they could be serving a customer who is going to buy that day.

I am not saying that there is anything wrong with sites like CAM I am just concerned that one day we will wake up and find no more good stores because we have driven them out with our buying habits. Although online buying does offer the advantage of finding some of the more obscure things which would be out of the question for a local store to stock or even afford.


Mike


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:56 pm
Posts: 1102
Location: near PETERBOROUGH, ON, CA
All the used items for sale on CAM were once sold as NEW.
Ultimately , people don't shop like they did 5 years ago,, no matter what the product type.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:19 am
Posts: 1482
Location: London, ON, CA
I understand the retailers sense of frustration , I really do,but I'm far from feeling sorry for him/her...I have been a residential and commercial contractor for 30 years, it would be impossible to articulate how many times I have gone into peoples homes, consulted, solved design issues, budgeted and quoted only to find out that it was going to the "brother in law" or some such thing all along....or some variant of this tale...trust me this takes several hours not two or three.
Its just business, you wanna know why a professional contractor is expensive....because we burn so much time on quotes we never get...I fail to see the difference or why the audio business should have some special consideration here. If business were easy everyone would do it, if risk was easy to take everyone would take it, if closing a deal were easy we would all be rich....

I genuinely feel this guys pain but he or anyone else in any other business has to constantly adapt, and I mean constantly or fail....straight up


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:45 pm 
Offline
Premium User
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:36 pm
Posts: 3644
Location: Vernon, BC, CA
I make sure to spend my money at local shops whenever possible. One place charges well over retail so they don't see any of my money, heck I don't even know how they are still open.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:18 pm
Posts: 1329
Location: Montreal, QC, CA
While I feel the pain for brick-and-mortar dealers, how many of us support Uber inste‎ad of the heavily taxed and burden Taxis? How many test drive cars at dealer and buy the same used?
Also, would the outcome be better for the dealer if the shopper had purchased from another dealer willing to go lower?
Internet is here to stay, better get used to it. Or have the balls to charge for auditions....‎

_________________
In the name of the Tube, the Vinyl and the Holy Cable. CAMen.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:37 pm
Posts: 2447
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
It seems like everyone is busy and when they do purchase something, it's after their work hours; typically nights or weekends. B&M has little reason to open Mon-Wed nights (unless they are offering essentials items or services like a pharmacist for example). Thurs or Friday night and the weekends- that is the entire week for most b&m stores. The Amazon type business model works for the masses, returning stuff is even easy.

Ultimately the landlords of those B&M's help to make it most challenging. What they charge per month does not take into account the "devaluing" of the B&M store.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:08 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:06 pm
Posts: 4904
Location: Montreal, QC, CA
There's ignorance and prejudice everywhere. Heck, I even have to watch out for it in myself. :wink: Personally, I think it's really worth while to hear once again some of the prejudices that dealers and, of course, other audio industry people have to deal with. A dealer's honest response is an ignorance-exploder. Having ignorance exploded is valuable and important.

In audio we are learning all the time. Even folks who have spent a lifetime in it don't know everything. Even those magicians who can listen to your system ( I should be so lucky ) and tell you to raise your tone arm a millimetre or two, or tighten your speaker connectors, or move your listening chair back three inches.

I think audio people get a lot of the disrespect they do get, when the business is seen as supplying a luxury, and as an entry-level customer I don't feel valuable. So as a shopper I come into an audio store and I know there are carriage trade items sharing the shelves with the ones I can afford. I may not be able to tell the different levels of gear apart. When I ask a question, I worry the dealer may think I'm "qualified" to buy the high end, and I'm not.

If I feel taken down a peg, and I have to gripe about that to someone, it's the dealer who gets the flack. And if I can find a way to feel like I got a steal, I'll feel better about myself. Too bad for the dealer in that case.

I think audio dealers have to work with people's own identity issues just like every other salesman. But when the goods for sale are judged to be luxuries, not necessities, that creates special conditions.

cableguy wrote:
1) "you dealers make a fortune"

2) "there's not much danger buying used speakers off the internet"

3) "you dealers don't have to pay for your gear on display. These are free to you"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group