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 Post subject: room/sound panels.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:09 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:10 pm
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Location: Brantford, ON, CA
I have a smallish living/kitchen home, and have looked into Aurelex panels, 2pcs 2x2' and one piece to fit a standard refrigerator side, in charcoal grey/black combination.

I have been astounded by the lack of product around Hamilton/Burlington, i have looked in the wrong places(stupid) or have been floored by the cost.

Where lie the alternatives for purchase of these items or equivelent, please?

pics if it helps.

TYIA


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:02 pm 
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Location: Hamilton, ON, CA
I just picked up some "egg crate" charcloe gray foam from a little shop on Ottawa street here in the Hammer... They have 5x7 foot pieces for $50

could always get creative and glue to a piece of thin plywood and cover with your choice of thin fabric.

peace


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:13 pm 
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Location: Georgetown, ON, CA
I bought Gray Eggshell type panels from a place called Collet Packaging in Mississauga, for 1/5 the price of audio shops.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:06 pm 
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Location: Brantford, ON, CA
glenerd, what shop was that?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:00 pm 
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Location: Hamilton, ON, CA
It is just up from the south east corner of Barton And Ottawa, don"t know the name, but you can't miss the big word FOAM written on the store front.. Huge difference here in my listening room. Note all stores except maybe one or two on Ottawa are always closed on Sunday. Kind of nice really.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:36 pm 
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Location: Ontario, ON, CA
Multi-glass insulation in Hamilton carries rigid(semi rigid) Roxul insulation.

Multi-Glass Insulation Ltd
495 Woodward Ave
Hamilton, ON L8H 6N6
(905) 545-0111

You can then build some wood frames out of 1x4 pine with a peg board backer. Set the insulation in place and wrap with fabric.

I think(if memory serves me correctly) it was about $34 for a bag. I built 4- 2'x4' panels and I believe I had one left over.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:20 pm 
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Location: Abbotsford, BC, CA
Music stores specializing in recording gear will likely carry or be able to order foam sound treatment panels in various packages. Usually the guys in the recording dept will have some "sound" advice too.

Just Google "sound treatment" and you'll find all kinds of forums, advice and sources of material. My local music store recommends Aurelex products.

Aurelex:
http://www.auralex.com/
Sound on Sound article on home studio treatment:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul00/articles/faqacoustic.htm

From what I've read, it's a good idea to measure room response so you know what problems you are trying to solve.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:33 am 
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Location: Brantford, ON, CA
Thanks so far guys.

Presently looking to stop the bouncing soundwaves caused by the Mani-2's firing directly at the side of a refrigerator 12' away, with absolutely no option on placement.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:48 am 
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Location: Montreal, QC, CA
Chip's suggestion, above, is likely to be more effective than a foam panel.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:52 am 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Egg crates, foam, fiberglas have different acoustical properties and each may have a use in treating your room.

Note: The goal with panels is to tame reflections but not totally eliminate them. An untreated room will be too live and a recording studio will be too dead. You want just enough treatment so that you get rid of echo yet the music is still alive. The acoustic treatment companies want to sell lots of product so they would be happy if every one treated their room like a recording studio.

Egg crates have no absorption capabilities since they have no mass. However they can be used to diffuse (break up) sound waves especially at the high frequencies. I hang them in front of my plasma TV for this purpose.

Foam and fiberglas can both be used for absorption. The density of the material determines its capacity for absorption. i.e. 50 square feet of 2" 6.0lb/ft3 panel has the same absorption capability as 200 square feet of 2" 1.5lb/ft3 panel. Also low frequencies require much more mass for absorption than high frequencies.

Foam density typically ranges from 1.0 to 2.0 lb/ft3. The cheap 'acoustic' foam you see on eBay is about 1.1lb/ft3 (note: their postings lie and claim to be 2.0 lb/ft3). Auralex is slightly better at 1.3-1.6lb/ft3. Primacoustic foam is 1.6lb/ft3, however Primacoustic is discontinuing their foam product and concentrating on fiberglass.

Foam density has actually been dropping over the past few years as suppliers try to cut material and shipping costs. As an example, Primacoustic foam used to be 2.0 lb/ft3.

Compressed fiberglas density ranges from 1.5 to 7.0 lb/ft3 and comes in thicknesses from 1" to 4" in 1/2" increments. The panels are 48"X24" in area. See the datasheet for 'Fiberglas® 700 Series Insulations'.
http://www.owenscorningcommercial.com/d ... Series.pdf

For reference, Primacoustic fiberglas panels are 6.0lb/ft3.

One advantage of very high density fiberglass is that it is very stiff and doesn't require a frame to keep its shape. It can be hung directly on the wall using impalers. In the case of the Primacoustic panels, fabric is glued directly on top of the fiberglas so it comes pre-finished.

The Fiberglas types 704 (4.2lb/ft3), 705 (6.0lb/ft3) and 707 (7.0lb/ft3) panels are available with a factory-applied white ASJ (all service jacket) which ensures that the glass fibers are well contained. You can glue an upholstery fabric (e.g. from Fabricland) on top to give a similar finish to the Primacoustic panels. If you are a purist, use Guilford of Maine FR701 which is an acoustically transparent fabric used in professional and serious DIY panels.


A few good links for information on acoustics:

http://www.primacoustic.com/index.htm
http://www.acoustics101.com/


Summary of sources for pre-made panels:

Mediocre
http://www.foambymail.com/ (also see the on eBay)

Good
http://www.auralex.com/

Best
http://www.primacoustic.com/index-broadway.htm


DIY can be a good way to go, however you may not get the fit/finish of a commercial product. You must also invest your time so only you can judge which of route is better for you.

I feel that the Primacoustic fabric panels are reasonably priced and they are a Canadian product with equivalent Canadian and US MSRPs.

However using the Fiberglas FR705 ASJ backed panels and the fabric of your choice you can build something with identical performance characteristics to the Primacoustic panels.


Perhaps someone can do some research on prices/sources in Canada for the Fiberglas FR705 ASJ backed panels and quantity you must order. I personally am curious about the availability/pricing, :D .


One final comment. Only fiberglas panels are fireproof. Egg cartons are flammable and foam is flame-retardent (at best). This may not be a concern to most, however it is important to point out for those that do care.


Last edited by S_Huang on Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:02 am 
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Location: Hamilton, ON, CA
Wow! Thanks Mr. Huang.
Now there is a whole wack of information for all of us to check out... And be a more informed consumer.

peace


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:15 am 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Glenerd2 wrote:
Wow! Thanks Mr. Huang.
Now there is a whole wack of information for all of us to check out... And be a more informed consumer.
peace


I have done a lot of experimenting with DIY and commercial products. My current listening room has a mix of both.

BTW: I made some corrections/additions to the original post. It is the FR705 panel which is equivalent to the Primacoustic. Also they come in a convenient 48"X24" size.

One day I will post my experience with bass traps, the other big area of room treatment.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:17 am 
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Location: Hamilton, ON, CA
Sounds Great!!!
looking forward to reading up on that one too... :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:55 pm 
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Location: Calgary, AB, CA
S_Huang lots of good info there, great post. Thanks

_________________
If you havn't tried it. You don't have an opinion!!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:17 am 
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Location: Sackville, NS, CA
great post S_Huang


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