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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:12 pm 
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Jared: Are you referring to the driver as a whole, or the cone/surround, or the magnet/rear assembly? In any event, that is a good consideration. As for the setup you mentioned, I do have a pair of 5.25" and an 8" sub. I've also got a 10" sub I could use as well, although it'd take a bit of work to set them both up, unless I want them both centered around either 90 or 60 Hz (as selected by my pre-amp). I've got the components to do a two- or three-way system with a subwoofer though (except for speakers), so if the choice is between an ok system with two speakers and a sub, and a good system with four (or six) speakers and a sub, then I'll go with the latter.

OBI: Thanks for bringing that up... I was thinking to my experiances with home audio, and how MDF seems to be the preferred choice (when solid wood is too pricey). I was concerned about how flexible some plexi is, but I suppose the entire setup is compromised from the start simply due to the envirionment, so perhaps plexi won't make much of a difference. I will look into that other stuff you mentioned... I've tried a heat gun on some plexi, but it didn't seem to cooperate so well, so if I find something a bit softer it might work out.

Erik: Thanks for the posts... the little round speakers look cool, but I never really trusted speakers that small. And I think I'd be shunned if I tried putting Bose satellites in as front channels... I don't think anyone would let me live it down.

Zarnov: After reading your post and doing a quick search, Waveguides seem like a great option... mounting one on either side would be perfect, especially if they can offer the sound you mentioned. I think it'd be easier to find room for them than a set of three-ways on either side, especially if I put them under the dash and complement them with a pair of 6.5"s in the kick panels and a subwoofer (or two). Now I just need to track down these elusive Waveguides... any idea if they're still produced, or should I put a "wanted" ad up in the classifieds?

All in all, it looks like the general consensus is to go for the kick panels with the midbass. I guess if it doesn't make too much of a difference, I won't bother putting speakers on the transmission tunnel, although if I can fit an 8" woofer there I might. I'll look into the Waveguides, and if I can't find any then I might try a pair of 4" drivers and a pair of 1" tweeters, probably mounted near the midbass.

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ADA SSD-66 (5.1) pre/processor; Bryston 4B (x2) & Hafler 220; Laptop with Steinberg MI-4 and Cambridge Audio DAC Magic; Furman power conditioner; Focal Chorus 705V's, Polk Audio RT-15's, and an Energy center speaker.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:01 pm 
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If I were you I'd go to Canadian Tire and pick up a door panel removable tool to see if there are speraker coutouts already there in the door panels. The door panels are a better location soundwise for speakers (they are not aimed at your ankles) than the kick panels but they do have issues with water infiltration from the windows (they sell poly covers for that) and shock from the doors closing, but most car speakers are designed with that in mind.

I remember some very flat speakers meant for surface mounting that do not require holes behind them (thought hey do sound better with them). There are also all sorts of surface mount tweeters and midranges out there that can be mounted in all sorts of places without any holes.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=270-013
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=267-650
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=265-263
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=267-281
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=263-932


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:43 pm 
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OBI: I've removed the door panels, and there are holes in the door, but they're up toward the middle. The photo I've posted above is from the internet, not of my actual truck. Here's the best pic I've got right now of the doors sans panels:

Image

That's also the racing seat concept I had to abandon. If you look closely, you can see a four-sided cutout in the lower half of the door, just to the right of the steering wheel. Without tearing into the bottom of the door, that'd probably be the best place. I would rather avoid putting them into the doors though, mostly for appearance, so if anything I'd rather slide them forward a few inches and have them sit just in front of the doors.

Thanks for the links to the tweeters and components... there's a shop here that has a whole bunch of them set up on display, so I'll go in and take a listen sometime soon. I've got a pair of 5.25" JBL's, so I could always add those for some extra midbass, if need be.

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ADA SSD-66 (5.1) pre/processor; Bryston 4B (x2) & Hafler 220; Laptop with Steinberg MI-4 and Cambridge Audio DAC Magic; Furman power conditioner; Focal Chorus 705V's, Polk Audio RT-15's, and an Energy center speaker.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:14 pm 
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popeface wrote:
Now I just need to track down these elusive Waveguides... any idea if they're still produced, or should I put a "wanted" ad up in the classifieds?

http://www.usdaudio.com/products/


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:31 pm 
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Location: Niagara Falls, ON, CA
popeface wrote:
Zarnov: After reading your post and doing a quick search, Waveguides seem like a great option... mounting one on either side would be perfect, especially if they can offer the sound you mentioned. I think it'd be easier to find room for them than a set of three-ways on either side, especially if I put them under the dash and complement them with a pair of 6.5"s in the kick panels and a subwoofer (or two). Now I just need to track down these elusive Waveguides... any idea if they're still produced, or should I put a "wanted" ad up in the classifieds?


I don't believe they are still produced, but I could very well be wrong. I just spent a bit of time sifting through some mobile-audio forums I frequent and I haven't found you any links yet...but don't despair; The pair that went for sale here on Cam were from Welland, ON and were listed no more than 2 months ago if memory serves. I will continue to search for you for a pair (if only so you can speak to the seller about their performance). A "Wanted" add certainly wouldn't hurt!!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:40 pm 
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SatoriGFX wrote:
popeface wrote:
Now I just need to track down these elusive Waveguides... any idea if they're still produced, or should I put a "wanted" ad up in the classifieds?

http://www.usdaudio.com/products/



Well there ya go!!! LOL
Thanks Satori!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:27 pm 
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Zarnov and Satori: Thanks for the help... I took a look at their site and emailed them about prices. Hopefully they'll get back to me over the next couple days... they've even got component kits that include the crossover (set to 800 Hz) and a pair of 6.5" or 8" drivers. The kit with 6.5" drivers sounds best, as I've already got an 8" driver, and a 10" subwoofer. If I do go with these, I suppose I could run the horns and midbass off the front output on my EQ, with the 8" running off the rear output and through a low-pass filter. The 10" would run off the subwoofer output on the EQ... this way I could use the front/rear fade to control the 8" woofer, and use the subwoofer level control for the 10". If the Waveguides turn out to be fantastically expensive (like $600+ for the pair), then I'll probably just pick up a pair of 6.5" components... I could probably get a decent pair of Alpines (or something similar) for less than $300, including tweeters and crossovers.

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ADA SSD-66 (5.1) pre/processor; Bryston 4B (x2) & Hafler 220; Laptop with Steinberg MI-4 and Cambridge Audio DAC Magic; Furman power conditioner; Focal Chorus 705V's, Polk Audio RT-15's, and an Energy center speaker.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:40 pm 
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popeface wrote:
Zarnov and Satori: Thanks for the help... I took a look at their site and emailed them about prices. Hopefully they'll get back to me over the next couple days... they've even got component kits that include the crossover (set to 800 Hz) and a pair of 6.5" or 8" drivers. The kit with 6.5" drivers sounds best, as I've already got an 8" driver, and a 10" subwoofer. If I do go with these, I suppose I could run the horns and midbass off the front output on my EQ, with the 8" running off the rear output and through a low-pass filter. The 10" would run off the subwoofer output on the EQ... this way I could use the front/rear fade to control the 8" woofer, and use the subwoofer level control for the 10". If the Waveguides turn out to be fantastically expensive (like $600+ for the pair), then I'll probably just pick up a pair of 6.5" components... I could probably get a decent pair of Alpines (or something similar) for less than $300, including tweeters and crossovers.


If memory serves the last set I saw went for about $250 used...so they may be quite pricey new. Good luck either way and let us know how it goes please!

Cheers!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:02 pm 
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popeface wrote:
OBI: I've removed the door panels, and there are holes in the door, but they're up toward the middle. The photo I've posted above is from the internet, not of my actual truck. Here's the best pic I've got right now of the doors sans panels:

That's also the racing seat concept I had to abandon. If you look closely, you can see a four-sided cutout in the lower half of the door, just to the right of the steering wheel. Without tearing into the bottom of the door, that'd probably be the best place. I would rather avoid putting them into the doors though, mostly for appearance, so if anything I'd rather slide them forward a few inches and have them sit just in front of the doors.

Thanks for the links to the tweeters and components... there's a shop here that has a whole bunch of them set up on display, so I'll go in and take a listen sometime soon. I've got a pair of 5.25" JBL's, so I could always add those for some extra midbass, if need be.


Fil, you don't have any speaker holes in those doors; they would be round and at the very bottom of the door near the hinges. You couldn't mount any speakers in any of the other holes due to clearance problems when the windows would be lowered (don't ask how I found out!). As I mentionned before, the problem with mounting them in the kick panels in front of the doors is that they would be aimed at your ankles, absorbing much of the sound.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:25 pm 
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Zarnov: That's unfortunate about the price... I suppose I'll find out soon how much they want for a new pair, but going on what you've said they could be pretty expensive. I may have to start looking at other options... I suspect I should seriously revisit the idea of regular components.

OBI: I see what you mean about the kick panels... what do you think about mounting them just below the dashboard, right in front of the door? That should put them right about knee height, or even just over. The entire area there is recessed and covered with a fiberboard panel, so if I make a solid replacement panel and mount the speakers in there they should have a bit of room behind to act as an "enclosure". I mostly drive on my own as well, so I don't have to worry too much about the right channel being blocked by a passenger, regardless of the positioning.

Now for another in a series of seemingly endless questions: As I mentioned above, I wouldn't mind running a pair of components (using a crossover) off my front speaker outputs, an 8" woofer off the rear output, and an additional subwoofer. If I do decide to go this route, would it make much of a difference whether I use 5.25" or 6.5" drivers for midbass? I seem to recall seeing both sizes available in component sets.

Actually, doing a quick search of Best Buy and Future Shop reveals that they've got Infinity and Energy component sets available in both 5.25" and 6.5", and Alpine component sets in 6.5". Seems the average price is between $150 and $400, depending on model and size. I know Speaker City down here also offers Dragster component sets, although I don't recall the cost and I don't know the quality.

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ADA SSD-66 (5.1) pre/processor; Bryston 4B (x2) & Hafler 220; Laptop with Steinberg MI-4 and Cambridge Audio DAC Magic; Furman power conditioner; Focal Chorus 705V's, Polk Audio RT-15's, and an Energy center speaker.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:08 am 
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Fil, the biggest problem with speakers in a truck is finding a location that aims the sound at you. In a car you have a rear shelf and the angled rear window to reflect the sound to your ears but in a truck, unless you have a flat top dash with openings in the top of it that can reflect the sound to you, the options you have left are pretty much all going to give you indirect and muffled sound. At least with the component sets you can mount the tweeters so they are aimed at you, but the mid-woofers are still going to be aimed at your ankles, under your legs or at the floor.

One thing you can do is to sit in the driver's seat and physically look directly at each possible speaker mounting location and see if you can imagine looking directly at the front of the speaker or if you are seeing it at some angle. The most direct view of the speaker should be the position that will give you the best sound. You will see just how difficult it is to find a good location when you take into account the mounting depth of the woofers.

Some of the custom applicatons I have seen in pickups have had some sort of small molded cabinets mounted to the ceiling near the door pillars or near the back corner of the cab and angled to aim the speakers at you. The problem with these that I have seen is that the sun visors lose some of their flexibility to the sides so you have to use a dark window tint strip at the top of the windshield and side windows to compensate.

As for the sub, if you are going to use bucket seats, you can always make a custom molded cabinet between the seats and up against the back wall for a 6.5" or 8" sub or both. I've been thinking about that material they use to mold the custom cabinets from and the term PVC or ABS sheet comes to mind. 1/4" stock seems about right and can melted for bending with a heat gun with a flat concentrator attachment. You can glue the edges with butt joints using PVC glue/solvent, sand the edges rounded and seal it with buytl rubber caulking or a soldering iron. I haven't done this in over 30 years so I'm a bit fuzzy on the details, but you get the gist of the whole idea.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:22 am 
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Car audio guys seem to prefer Focal speakers, at a more reasonable price Infinity makes good stuff. If it was my project I'd buy Eminent Technology LFT-10 Planar Magnetic speakers

Image

Image

Eminent Technology introduces a new automotive loudspeaker standard for resolution, detail, and quality with the worlds first wide range planar magnetic car audio speaker. Audiophiles have been using planar loudspeakers for over three decades as the reference for high quality sound reproduction. Until now, limitations(cost, size, sensitivity, and reliability) have prevented their use in car audio. Eminent Technology engineers have overcome these limitations with the LFT-10 to make planar technology a reality for autosound.

Eminent Technology designed and built the world's first full range push-pull planar magnetic loudspeaker. Eminent Technology's planar magnetic car loudspeaker wioll set sound quality standards for automotive sound systems. The LFT-10 produces sound with distortion as low as some amplifiers, excellent detail and perfect transient response.

The LFT-10 will offer a new range of flexibility to the installer because of its thin profile and reduced space requirements behind the speaker.

The useable frequency range is from 400Hz to beyond 20Khz. Narrow directivity requires on axis or reflective positioning and assures excellent imaging. The LFT-10 is the first car speaker to have accurate phase response over a wide frequency range. The LFT-10 is not designed or intended for use in car audio systems where excessive sound pressure levels are desired. Typical installations will yield sound pressure levels between 100-115dB, depending on amplifier, crossover frequency, rolloff rates, etc. Multiple panels will yield higher sound pressure levels or allow a lower crossover frequency.

Advanced materials were chosen to handle the extreme environmental requirements of a car.

LFT-10 General Specifications

Diaphragm Weight 1 gram

Frequency Response 400Hz To 20Khz + 3dB

Sensitivity 86dB @ 1Khz @ 1 meter on axis.

Power Requirements 50 watts minimum - 150 watts maximum

Impedance 6 Ohms purely resistive

Weight 4lbs.

Dimensions 6.5" W x 9"W x 1"D

Price $180.00 each

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:03 am 
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Very, very nice Audiophile4life! But lordy me, are they ever pricey and the will need quite an amp to drive them. Still, probably some of the best possible sound in a car you can get! These would probably work great mounted at each end of the dash if there is enough space on the driver's side, reflecting off the windshield. All you would need is a sub or a woofer that goes up to 400 or 500 hertz and they would make for some really nice sound. My only other concern would be the limited volume they can produce, especially since those old pickups are particularly noisy. Would make a heck of a nice system in a luxury car.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:14 am 
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Ah, now I think we're getting somewhere...

OBI: I wasn't sure about this, but should the drivers be facing me for the best sound quality? I don't know much about these terms, but for best imaging, soundstage, etc.? A couple people have mentioned otherwise, that the drivers are best aimed off-axis. But, I'm not sure if mounting them off-axis is simply the easiest way to get proper sound for both driver and passenger, or if it's actually the best possible way to mount them. I can put them on top of the dash and have them reflect off the windshield as well, but it's sounding like more of a last-resort placement. As for line-of-sight, I can do you one better: I don't have the truck at a garage here, but I'll drive out there this weekend and take a couple photos from the driver's seat, then post them up. I'll mark out the places I'd like to put them, and see what everyone else thinks.

Audiphile: I've heard of Focal, and I know they make some drivers that have a relatively shallow mounting depth. Haven't checked the price in a while, so I'll have to take a look. If anything, I'll look at Infinity's instead. As for the Planar speakers, they look pretty cool... they're a bit big though, and it might be hard to mount them on axis. If I can find them, I'll listen to them though. I suppose these might go well with another driver that'll go below 400 Hz.

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ADA SSD-66 (5.1) pre/processor; Bryston 4B (x2) & Hafler 220; Laptop with Steinberg MI-4 and Cambridge Audio DAC Magic; Furman power conditioner; Focal Chorus 705V's, Polk Audio RT-15's, and an Energy center speaker.


Last edited by popeface on Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:16 am 
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Popeface, mount a couple of these underneath the bucket seats:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=299-028

:mrgreen:


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