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Avant-Garde Jazz?
Poll ended at Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:45 pm
Hate it 15%  15%  [ 2 ]
Dislike it 31%  31%  [ 4 ]
Like it 15%  15%  [ 2 ]
Love it 38%  38%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 13
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:10 pm 
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finski wrote:
Lex Luger wrote:
Does someone want to give me some KNOWN names of some artists? thanks


I already did that. and now your avatar looks like something Vintage should be putting on.... :mrgreen:


How do you like me now? :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:32 pm 
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The artists in question are some of the giants of the jazz world, people whose work I have the utmost respect for. The LP's I wish to part with, for example, are by Ornette Coleman (Free Jazz; Atlantic), John Coltrane & Don Cherry (Avant-Garde; Atlantic), Coltrane's Live at Birdland and his Live at the Village Vanguard Again (both on Impulse!). All are on 180 gram re-issues and sound great, sonic-wise. I just can't get into the music, try as I might.

I don't knock anybody who likes this stuff and sho' 'nuff, there's stuff I like that might send others around the bend (e.g., some of John Cage's composition for modified piano). But this music is so "out there" that I find it difficult (Satori) to get that some of it might be appealing to some people while others aren't. Yes, I admit that some C&W (e.g., Hank Williams or Patsy Cline) appeals to me whereas most of it is pure dreck, but the case with avant-garde jazz is different in my mind.

Just like most, if not all of these threads, this is a matter of pure opinion, mine in this case. I may find wishy-washy positions, like Satori's puzzling, but I still support their right to hold their watery opinions.

I was really hoping someone out there was a complete free jazz nut and just had to have these records (for a modest sum, of course). :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:29 pm 
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That stuff's not really avant jazz, maybe in the 50's it was. That's just mainstream artists who have gone a little bit 'outside'.

People I have met who are into avant music are usually quite intelligent and very artistic, and have music collections the size of a library.
I listen to a lot of avant jazz, classical and electro-acoustic.
The Coltrane/Coleman stuff is just a first step/introduction to music that is 'outside'. It is not for everyone. I have aquired a taste for it because I spent 30 years listening and collecting 1000's of the classic recordings of every genre. It is now hard to get inspired when listening to music that is to formulaic and has so many similarities.

Outside music is created for the few of us who require something more unique and creative to stimulate our brains. This music may take you out of your comfort zone because it does not have anything that sounds familiar. Most listeners can only relax when they feel comfortable and can predict what is going to happen musically. I on the other hand, now wish only to be stimulated by new, creative possibly improvised musical performance.

Listen to CBC 2 the signal 10pm -1am to get a musical education on what new creative artists are doing.
Or check out the Guelph Jazz Festival, the Music Gallery in Toronto or just go to soundlist for a complete listing of creative avant music artists and performances in every genre.

I couldn't help to notice that there are a few people who voted 'love it' for avant music. If you want me to post some real links for everything new, creative and avant garde then feel free to ask or pm.

Or, even easier, just check out my thread on the music scene in Canada...
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/vi ... sc&start=0


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:47 pm 
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Winter_vinyl, please check your messages...just PM-ed you.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:43 am 
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Winter_vinyl,

I don't consider any of the albums you mentioned "out there". They are rather mild in relation to a lot of other avant-garde jazz. I'm sure, in their day, they were considered really out there by some. To me, they are accessible. I know plenty of people that couldn't listen to "Eclipse" by Masayuki Takayanagi and New production Unit but would have no problem listening to the albums you mentioned.

There is nothing wishy washy about my answer to your original post. There are many thousands of albums that could be called "avant-garde jazz" that all sound very different. Some I like, some I don't. If it makes you happy, I will say that I like avant-garde jazz. But, I'll also have to say I don't like it. It's simply too wide of a genre to pigeonhole the whole genre and paint it with one broad stroke.

I'm not sure why you think avant-garde jazz, unlike other genres, is a genre you either love or hate.

If you had been less general and listed the albums in question up front, asking what people thought of those albums, perhaps I could have given you an answer more to your liking.

But, I'm sure this won't be good enough for you. I'm sure you'll insist I have to love or hate "all" avant-garde jazz.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:39 am 
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To Newmusic and Satori - You are probably quite correct in stating that the albums I've listed are mild in comparison to some. Be that as it may, it's like the guy once said, "I may not know art, but I know what I like". When it comes to visual art, I can appreciate, for example, the Jackson Pollack on the cover of Coleman's "Free Jazz", a composition, which to my trained eye possesses rhythm and harmony, whereas the Coleman's composition to my untrained ear does not. I also understand what Newmusic refers to when he says that he has outgrown many types or styles of music and requires ever more sophisticated music to stimulate his brain. I have observed how a piece of music in my collection has left me cold, but when I listen to the same piece years later, found that I have warmed to it. I believe that it is, as Newmusic stated, because of our expectations concerning musical form and the way we predict how a piece unfolds. However, I listen to music primarily to relax my brain rather than to stimulate it, so I'll leave the avant-garde (as I see it anyways) to those who dig it and go back to my Coltrane Ballads.
It wasn't my intention to put down those who enjoy this type of music or the music itself. Indeed, I was looking for someone to buy these records and mocking the sub-genre and those who like it is hardly an effective marketing approach. :?
BTW, Satori, your response is perfectly fine with me and forgive me for having a little fun with you, but your initial response struck me as somewhat post-modernist with its "everything is equal and nothing must be considered superior to anything else" ideology. I would, and will always, defend your right to express your opinion in ways you deem fit.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:58 am 
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Lex Luger wrote:
finski wrote:
Lex Luger wrote:
Does someone want to give me some KNOWN names of some artists? thanks


I already did that. and now your avatar looks like something Vintage should be putting on.... :mrgreen:


How do you like me now? :lol:


The Great and Holy J.C. 8)

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It is certain, in any case, that ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have. James A Baldwin


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