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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:29 pm 
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ripblade wrote:
But I can't see how the 2nd tweeter doesn't see the 1st one and it's crossover, as well as it's own. I've drawn a simplified schematic (badly) to show what I mean. The dotted lines represent a normal parallel connection. With this removed and connecting the speakers in series, it can be seen that the 2nd filter (C2) follows the first tweeter (T1), etc.


But in this case, rip blade is correct, wiring the two speakers in series will protect the amp, but at the cost of the sound of the Magies. There's likely to be a mid range suck out, as both tweeters will now see two caps in series, halving the capacitance, and raising their cut off frequency. If a speaker were a purely resistive load, you could connect them in series with impunity, but most are very far from a flat resistor. They're designed to be driven by a constant voltage source, and putting a second speaker in series ensures they're being driven by anything but. If you really want to drive to sets of speakers, and your amp can't handle the parallel load, you really need to buy a second amp (sorry!).

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:57 pm 
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dcrooks wrote:
If a speaker were a purely resistive load, you could connect them in series with impunity, but most are very far from a flat resistor. They're designed to be driven by a constant voltage source, and putting a second speaker in series ensures they're being driven by anything but.

That's a good point I hadn't considered. Instead of the crossover seeing the low impedance of the amp it's seeing the much higher impedance of the other crossover instead. That can't be good.

I should've drawn the schematic as a 2nd order network. Then it would become clear that the shunt coil is no longer shunted to ground as it should be. This is bound to affect the intended slope.

I've never actually tried connecting 2 multi-way speakers in series as I've never had to. I have no idea what to expect but I very much doubt it'll produce a usable result.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:54 am 
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TwentyKHzPlus wrote:

20KzPlus: Bolly's "Wiring 2 Speakers in Series" diagram (bottom left hand side) is the only safe way to go!!!I

Bandy: OP 1st diagram is correct as well.

20KzPlus: would sell the Velodynes also, as they will be much more difficult to pair properly with the 3.7's.

Bandy: If the Velodynes are higher end = sealed servo controlled (ULD and F series for example), they are ideal match for Maggies.

20KzPlus: I lean toward synergy and accuracy than to bombast;

Bandy: Maggies & servo Veldynes are match made i heaven=synergy AND accuracy. Perhaps you are only familiar with later cheap Velodyne vented boom boxes sold through Future shop/Best buy etc. The early Velos, F1500, F1200, ULD 15 & 18 are some of the most accurate subs ever made IMHO.

20KzPlus: if you are completely into earth-shattering bass, then keep the Velodynes, but learn how to best protect your hearing.

Bandy: U should always protect your hearing, why specifically with Velodyne?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:18 am 
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TwentyKHzPlus wrote:
For crying out loud, don't ever connect the speakers in parallel as that will reduce the load the amps see down to 2 ohms, which could one day spell disaster for the amps, and perhaps the speakers also. Let it be clear, connecting speakers in parallel will half the resistance the amps see; connecting the speakers in series will double the resistance that the amps see. To keep the resistance same, one would need four speakers per channel, two sets in series, those then attached to each other in parallel.

Bolly's "Wiring 2 Speakers in Series" diagram (bottom left hand side) is the only safe way to go!!!

That said, this attempted endeavour absolutely BEGS the QUESTION: Why on earth do you think that it could possibly be a good idea to to use two sets of Maggies? By now you should realize that you can buy a pair of high quality 4-ohm power resistors and place them in series with a single pair of Maggies and you should be up and running. I would highly recommend first checking with Magnepan and Emotiva just to be sure, and take the time to ask them for a recommended brand/type of power resistor, if any, or, phone The Parts Connection.

The big flaw in your original plan is placing the Maggies relative to one another. I'm sure the people at Magnepan will tell you that there is no practical way to arrange pairs per side without completely screwing up the imaging. The best you could do is disable one of the tweeters per side. Big can of worms! You could try the panels with the tweeters side by side, but they weren't designed to be used this way and you would be throwing away a lot of their best design features. Your best bet is simply getting two of Magnepan's dedicated bass panels. That would cost you $2000 - a lot less than what you would get from selling one pair of the Maggies. I would sell the Velodynes also, as they will be much more difficult to pair properly with the 3.7's. I lean toward synergy and accuracy than to bombast; if you are completely into earth-shattering bass, then keep the Velodynes, but learn how to best protect your hearing.

Seeing as you already have a great pre-amp in the Sonic Frontiers, you could sell the Emotiva's and step up to Sonic Frontiers amplification. It can be adjusted internally for either 4 or 8 ohm loads. Ask Chris when you phone The Parts Connection. Another step up would be to move up to a Bryston amp. Wendell Dillar of Magnepan recommends high current solid state amplification and has been using only Bryston amps at the audio shows for many years. Personally, I own units of all three brands and can attest to how well they all work together, and also with Quad esl's. Of course, it's your call; I just don't want to see you damage anything or spend any more than is necessary, which I believe you already have. Don't give your for sale units away, get fair price and be patient. For now, all you should have to do is buy a pair of quality resistors. Settle in with one pair of Maggies and figure out what you are hearing and how to improve it. See the Cardas website for properly setting up speakers in various size rooms. 3.7i's are definitely keepers! Remember, you will always be on a learning curve; I hope it takes a big jump for you soon. I will check back tomorrow to see if you need further clarity. Cheers!


Everything this guy says +1

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:25 am 
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ripblade wrote:
dcrooks wrote:
If a speaker were a purely resistive load, you could connect them in series with impunity, but most are very far from a flat resistor. They're designed to be driven by a constant voltage source, and putting a second speaker in series ensures they're being driven by anything but.

That's a good point I hadn't considered. Instead of the crossover seeing the low impedance of the amp it's seeing the much higher impedance of the other crossover instead. That can't be good.

I should've drawn the schematic as a 2nd order network. Then it would become clear that the shunt coil is no longer shunted to ground as it should be. This is bound to affect the intended slope.

I've never actually tried connecting 2 multi-way speakers in series as I've never had to. I have no idea what to expect but I very much doubt it'll produce a usable result.


Electrically, there should be no problem. Your diagram neglects the output of the woofer recombines at the negative speaker terminal before it impacts the second speaker.

As for impedance, the second speaker will be affected, and should sound more "tube" like than the first of the series.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:51 am 
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Bumpy wrote:
Electrically, there should be no problem. Your diagram neglects the output of the woofer recombines at the negative speaker terminal before it impacts the second speaker.

I included only the tweeter in the diagram in order to keep it as simple and clear as possible. In the woofer's case, the result is the same; if they combined at the negative terminal as you suggest they'd be connected in parallel. We're discussing a series connection, so the signal must pass between the 2 drivers *before* it returns to ground. Replace the caps with coils in my diagram and you'll see what I mean.

Bumpy wrote:
As for impedance, the second speaker will be affected, and should sound more "tube" like than the first of the series.
There's some truth to that but keep in mind this is AC; both drivers see each other....which is first or second depends the direction of current. Also, the output of a tube amp uses an inductor (generally), whereas the crossover also has significant capacitive elements, so the reality is not as simple as sounding 'tube-like'.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:42 am 
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Nonetheless, the entire signal is going to be available at the negative terminal of the first speaker.

It's not going to be perfect, but what else can you really do?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:49 pm 
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Bumpy wrote:
Nonetheless, the entire signal is going to be available at the negative terminal of the first speaker.

It's not going to be perfect, but what else can you really do?

Whatever you say. :roll:

I would start with a few of 20kHz+'s suggestions. The whole ideally is a really bad one, especially wasted on Magnepans.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:17 am 
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How bad the idea is depends on the result, don't you think?

All the theorizing in the world won't tell you if you like how it sounds until you do it.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:33 pm 
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Bumpy wrote:
How bad the idea is depends on the result, don't you think?

All the theorizing in the world won't tell you if you like how it sounds until you do it.

Theory? Lobing and phase induced comb effects are not theories. Why anybody would put 2 top shelf line sources operating in the same frequency range beside each other is beyond me. I'd like to know what Magnepan would have to say about such an arrangement, but I very much doubt the result will be worth the investment.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:12 am 
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As the original poster said, they'd double up to increase impedance. That's all.

There is comb filtering with two line sources anyway. There will be more comb filtering at the highest frequencies. If the line sources are close enough, the effect will be minimized.

It's not all doom and gloom.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:20 pm 
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Who said it was doom and gloom? It's just a plain gawdawful bad idea.

I suggest the OP contact Magnepan for their input before attempting this.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:32 pm 
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I never thought about the crossovers having an impact when runnung them in parallel that makes sense the crossover would change the signal going to the second speaker as its running through the positive of one spkr into the negative of the other meaning it has to go through crossover first.. i never even thought about that so now i have a set of 3.6r's still in the box as magnepan just replaced the tweeters and drivers in both i just spent 1700us getting them to do this! wtf am i surposed to do with them i aint buying another set of monoblocks i bought the second set hoping it would give me the 2 or 3 decibals more i like to listen to them at as my 3.7's start to slap the magnets i figured having 2 pair would make twice as more sound so only needing to turn them up less thus no slapping of the magnets sound... So basically this aint gonna work then as i wont even attempt to run the amps at 2ohm... Suggestions anyone... those 3.6s have a 3 year warranty now as i told magnepan i aint spending 1700us and only getting a 90day warranty so they are as new warranty.. God damn it i paid 2g for them used and they fell apart in 1 year plus 1700us now for the drivers so i now have a spare pair basically if someone would of told me this before i bought them i never would have done this!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:43 pm 
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Have you talked to Magnepan about the idea?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:16 pm 
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damur wrote:
I never thought about the crossovers having an impact when runnung them in parallel that makes sense the crossover would change the signal going to the second speaker as its running through the positive of one spkr into the negative of the other meaning it has to go through crossover first.. i never even thought about that so now i have a set of 3.6r's still in the box as magnepan just replaced the tweeters and drivers in both i just spent 1700us getting them to do this! wtf am i surposed to do with them i aint buying another set of monoblocks i bought the second set hoping it would give me the 2 or 3 decibals more i like to listen to them at as my 3.7's start to slap the magnets i figured having 2 pair would make twice as more sound so only needing to turn them up less thus no slapping of the magnets sound... So basically this aint gonna work then as i wont even attempt to run the amps at 2ohm... Suggestions anyone... those 3.6s have a 3 year warranty now as i told magnepan i aint spending 1700us and only getting a 90day warranty so they are as new warranty.. God damn it i paid 2g for them used and they fell apart in 1 year plus 1700us now for the drivers so i now have a spare pair basically if someone would of told me this before i bought them i never would have done this!

Try it, don't listen to the all nay sayers, you might like it. If not, sell one pair and buy a decent fast servo controlled (12-15" at least, looks like u r looking for spl) sealed sub, cross over low, maybe 45-50 Hz, this will keep the beautiful Maggies upper bass but also give spl boost a few dBs. Magnets slapping is typically the bass reaching its limit, the sub will take that load off the Maggies.


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