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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:18 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:40 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Oakville, ON, CA
Hello everyone,

I'm new to all of this home theatre stuff, but have done a bit of research. Frankly, I don't know what to do with myself.

I purchased a TV in December of 2015, and was offered a good deal on some Samsung HTiB packages, and could probably go back and get a good deal on some of those as well. I decided not to go with the HTiB for the simple fact that it doesn't offer any future changes. We decided to wait and buy a proper receiver, and speakers. It's now over a year later, and we prioritised other things and we still have no additional speakers to the tv's. Frankly, the '2.1' speakers in this tv are dismal. I have a neighbour who likes to enjoy his self made music next door, and we are often trying to drone out his noise. This has been a growing nuisance, and we are at the point now, where we would like to get something, but have a limited budget. We are not trying to get something which is just thump and bump, but something with some clarity. I initially had the idea that for $200-250 I could get a used system. I have since been awoken, but unfortunately still can only muster about $400.

So I have constant competing thoughts of what I should do.

I have come across an onkyo ht-s5800 kit that the owner is asking $450. This a HTiB but seems to be a more serious system. I like basically everything about this, except I am not sure if it will do multi-room which would be nice. I am also not sure if I could upgrade the speakers down the road, and from reviews, it seems like it's a cheap system.

The route I have been a bit more keen on is finding a receiver which meets my desires, and then buy an inexpensive set of speakers second hand and wait to upgrade the speakers. I have stopped in best buy and talked with a rep about getting an open box item which would still give me a warranty. I could have picked up an avr s700w yamaha for a great deal, but it didn't have hdcp 2.2. I was offered a Marantz 1506 for a great price as well, but it lacked the same feature.

The other option is to buy a pos HTiB system for $50-$100 and just wait until I can allocate some more funds to this cause. None of these would meet my wants, but it would, well it should, be better than the tv's speakers.

The guy at best buy also told me he could probably get me into a Sony at my price point with all my wants, but I have heard poor things of Sony's receivers. I have basically been looking at Onkyo, Denon, and Yamaha. I have looked at some used Marantz, and Anthems, but for what I am looking to spend and what I want, it's simply not happening.


The things I would like to have in a receiver are 4k compatible, can support 3d, HDR, Spotify, HDCP 2.2, and I would like a 7.2 setup, and multi room (which would use spotify or bluetooth). Atmos/ DTS: X would be great. Basically, I want the world but for free :lol:

Thanks in advance for your input.

Justin


Oh, by the way, I just want to say although my user name is djphonics, I am not a dj.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:59 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 am
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Location: Brampton, ON, CA
Djphonics wrote:
The things I would like to have in a receiver are 4k compatible, can support 3d, HDR, Spotify, HDCP 2.2, and I would like a 7.2 setup, and multi room (which would use spotify or bluetooth). Atmos/ DTS: X would be great. Basically, I want the world but for free :lol:


You pretty much have admitted you are asking for something impossible within your budget, which means you either need to save up more money or give up some things on your list.

Personally, my goal would be over-all sound quality and I would consider an older quality used receiver even without hdmi, that might be 5.2 and might lack bluetooth and spotify. Perhaps a top of the line Pioneer Elite from the mid 2000's. You can still get the music out of your phone with a cable and get spotify through your phone. I am not sure why a '4 k compatible' receiver is even essential.

A quality used receiver and 5 or 6 decent used speakers is probably going to eat up your budget of $400 and you will still have to save up for a decent subwoofer. Much of home theater stuff devalues pretty quickly - especially without hdmi. I would stick to quality and give up the latest bells and whistles - most of which are not needed with some simple work-arounds.

Also, you mentioned the noise from your neighbour and hoping to 'drone out his noise'. Imo, this is a battle that never ends and you playing louder only makes them play louder. I would forgo some of the really deep bass in the interest of neighbourly peace.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:05 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:07 pm
Posts: 204
Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
Why not consider a 2-channel set-up? A decent receiver and a nice pair of speakers will allow you to focus on quality of speakers as opposed to quantity of speakers.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:08 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:18 pm
Posts: 953
Location: Richmond Hill, ON, CA
PM sent.

Cheers,
Alec


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:16 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:20 pm
Posts: 168
Location: Hamilton, ON, CA
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-stereo-systems-h ... nFlag=true

probably take less then asking

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-speakers/hamilto ... nFlag=true

IMO probably crush any HTiB money then left over for upgrades


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:27 am 
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Location: London, ON, CA
Today's systems have become really complicated ... I have a decent HT with 100" screen and a fair surround system which also works well for 2 channel music. But it is much simpler than you are looking for ... my BD player supplies Netflix and Youtube, plays my DVD/BD/CD/SACD collection, and a connected Hard Drive with all my albums (and many movies) ripped to.

I run an optical cable from the BD player to receiver, and one each HDMI to the projector and a 24" computer monitor.

If I were in your position, I wouldn't look for "the world". I would purchase a decent used Denon reciever, and a BD player that will give you Netflix, etc (unless you have a smart TV).

Then start with 2 decent used bookshelf speakers (I'd suggest Paradigm for their quality, and they are easy to find and sell). When you have the money, add a used subwoofer. When you have more money, add a center channel. When you have yet more money, use your front speakers for surrounds and upgrade the fronts.

At that point you can evaluate your system, and as you have the financial capability, upgrade your weakest component, and sell your used stuff with little loss if you bought right and take care of it.

That's what most of us here have done. Start simple and make it an enjoyable hobby. The receiver with a pair of Paradigm Atoms would be worlds better than what you have now.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:30 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:45 am
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Location: La Salle, MB, CA
An excellent used pre-HDMI AVR can be had for ~ free -> $100 (I've had three for free so far, settled on this nice Denon)
A decent vintage pair of front speakers for $100-$200 or so - can get Paradigm, Boston, Advent, lots of choice in this range.

That will get you plenty of entertainment while you save up for the dream system.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:35 am 
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Location: London, ON, CA
LaSalle wrote:
An excellent used pre-HDMI AVR can be had for ~ free -> $100 (I've had three for free so far, settled on this nice Denon)
A decent vintage pair of front speakers for $100-$200 or so - can get Paradigm, Boston, Advent, lots of choice in this range.

That will get you plenty of entertainment while you save up for the dream system.


+1

I would agree with this ... I have an HDMI capable receiver and don't need or use this feature. You can do switching from your TV and use the digital (or analogue) audio outputs to the receiver. Some of the prices you can get good units for are amazing. I know, I have tried selling some good Denon receivers (pre-HDMI) and they went too cheap. You have room to bargain hard on these and can end up with something that sounds really good (Denon, Harman Kardon, Yamaha, etc.)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:50 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:02 pm
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Ive spent more than I'm comfortable telling people on my system, Jadis amps and preamp, Wilson Audio speakers etc etc...
Having said that my Girlfriend's Bose Soundlink Mini sounds excellent using bluetooth through her phone.
I would suggest demoing one before you spend time, money (and space) on a system, especially if you just want to listen to digital music.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:35 am 
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Location: Oakville, ON, CA
RandyB wrote:
Djphonics wrote:
The things I would like to have in a receiver are 4k compatible, can support 3d, HDR, Spotify, HDCP 2.2, and I would like a 7.2 setup, and multi room (which would use spotify or bluetooth). Atmos/ DTS: X would be great. Basically, I want the world but for free :lol:


You pretty much have admitted you are asking for something impossible within your budget, which means you either need to save up more money or give up some things on your list.

Also, you mentioned the noise from your neighbour and hoping to 'drone out his noise'. Imo, this is a battle that never ends and you playing louder only makes them play louder. I would forgo some of the really deep bass in the interest of neighbourly peace.


I am not looking to have a battle, but rather be able to comfortably listen to my own stuff without his interfering. Without getting into details, I have been the 'bigger man' since I have moved in, in regards to many other things. If it were to turn into a battle, I would just get the bylaw officers in. Due to his nature though, we are just trying to avoid a retaliation on his part.

As far as what I am looking for, I am aware of the fact that I am asking too much. I would just like the opinions of people who have a better idea of what they are talking about. A new receiver with those features is about $450-550 from Best Buy, so picking up a second hand for $300 should be possible. There was an avr-710w on kijiji for $150 yesterday, but I missed out on it.

All the video features I am looking for are already built in to my TV. I am thinking that I should try to keep the features compatible.

I was told by someone that I should run everything to the receiver than to my tv, rather than to the tv then the receiver. Maybe this is not correct? If I run my components to the TV, and then to a receiver, does the receiver need to be hdcp 2.2?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:46 am 
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Location: Ingersoll, ON, CA
Welcome to CAM. If it's opinions you want then you came to the right place.
HTIB (home theater in a box)- Bad idea. Onkyo-worse idea.
There is no doubt that your TV speakers sound is horrible, the majority are.
I'd buy a sound bar. There are plenty in your price range. a buddy uses one and I'm always surprised at how good it is. Switching back and forth between the tv speakers and the sound bar was no contest. The sound bar (I think his is a Yamaha) was a runaway, slam dunk,home run winner.
Going to an AVR and a 5.1 or greater system has it's own set of pros and cons.
Pros: Surround sound adds a nice dimension to movies and regular tv.
You have increased flexibility to add other sources
Most AVR's have other features built in- AM/FM, some even have phono inputs
HDMI is probably the easiest set up method ever.
Cons: HDMI-unreliable, a giant PITA.
Most AVR problems are HDMI related and they can be difficult,expensive and almost impossible to repair.
AVR's are not meant for music (with a couple notable exceptions)
Cost- most are outside your budget
You'll likely want at a minimum 5.1, thats 5 speakers and a sub and the needed speaker cable.
Given your budget I go the sound bar route. Save up a few bucks and bit by bit you can improve your system and gain some knowledge on both equipment and your own personal preferences.
One more bit of advice. Avoid Onkyo like the plague. If you have a month to kill just Google Onkyo problems or Onkyo HDMI problems, you'll see what I mean.
Lastly (I lied about the one more thing) don't get too intimidated after all this really is fun. Get a good movie, a bevvie of choice and sit back and forget the tech, enjoy the movie. ENJOY our obsession.

_________________
He who is like the wind blowing from your pants.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:56 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:57 am
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Location: Whitby, ON, CA
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/ ... nd-remote/



No affiliation to me


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:28 am 
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triathleteman wrote:
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649331906-yamaha-yht1810-complete-home-theater-package-receiver-excellent-condition-with-box-and-remote/



No affiliation to me



Problem solved !!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:40 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:40 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Oakville, ON, CA
mahatma1 wrote:
Welcome to CAM. If it's opinions you want then you came to the right place.
HTIB (home theater in a box)- Bad idea. Onkyo-worse idea.
I'd buy a sound bar. There are plenty in your price range. a buddy uses one and I'm always surprised at how good it is. Switching back and forth between the tv speakers and the sound bar was no contest. The sound bar (I think his is a Yamaha) was a runaway, slam dunk,home run winner.
Going to an AVR and a 5.1 or greater system has it's own set of pros and cons.
Pros: Surround sound adds a nice dimension to movies and regular tv.
You have increased flexibility to add other sources
Most AVR's have other features built in- AM/FM, some even have phono inputs
HDMI is probably the easiest set up method ever.
Cons: HDMI-unreliable, a giant PITA.
Most AVR problems are HDMI related and they can be difficult,expensive and almost impossible to repair.
AVR's are not meant for music (with a couple notable exceptions)
Cost- most are outside your budget
You'll likely want at a minimum 5.1, thats 5 speakers and a sub and the needed speaker cable.
Given your budget I go the sound bar route. Save up a few bucks and bit by bit you can improve your system and gain some knowledge on both equipment and your own personal preferences.
One more bit of advice. Avoid Onkyo like the plague. If you have a month to kill just Google Onkyo problems or Onkyo HDMI problems, you'll see what I mean.
Lastly (I lied about the one more thing) don't get too intimidated after all this really is fun. Get a good movie, a bevvie of choice and sit back and forget the tech, enjoy the movie. ENJOY our obsession.


I have been unimpressed with the soundbars that I have heard, with the exception of some yamahas. I heard those a few years ago though, and maybe they have since come down in price. I will take a look into them.

Are HDMI ports having issues across the board, or is it an onkyo problem?

Onkyo has been highly recommended to me by some friends. The best buy guy told me to stay away from pioneer.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:05 am 
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Location: Mississauga, ON, CA
The advice on staying away from Onkyo is correct. Way too many problems / failures with them.

Don't pay any attention to "advice" received from someone at Best Buy. Odds are extremely high that it will be wrong.

The Yamaha system noted above looks to be exactly what you need. For that money - less than you're budget - I cannot imagine you finding something better.


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