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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:27 pm 
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Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
Need some input and opinion on the type of the surround speakers.

I have noticed that "real" designated surround speakers usually have 2 tweeters pointing in opposite direction. Also many users including professional reviewers use ordinary monitors (bookshelves) like surrounds.

Need fellow CAM-ers input especially if you have experience with both types. Is there significant difference in sound presentation/staging?

What is actual benefit in using one or the other.

Also, it is interesting that in many cases price is very similar as well.

Thank you all.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:35 pm 
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Location: Burlington, ON, CA
I run Paradigm ADP190's. So I guess I am in that camp.

The 5.1 for me is only for HT. I have a dedicated 2 channel setup.

So for HT I like the diffuse soundscape and effects of bipolar surrounds (with the 2 tweeters, and in my case 2 woofers too).

I have run traditional speakers as rears before and for 5.1 music I prefer them. But I don't listen to that anymore. I find for movies a traditional speaker is a little too pin point.

It was also easier for me to place the surrounds at the sides. I find bipolar speakers better in that placement too.

Mostly movies for you, or do you do surround music too?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:54 pm 
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mcgsxr wrote:
I run Paradigm ADP190's. So I guess I am in that camp.

The 5.1 for me is only for HT. I have a dedicated 2 channel setup.

So for HT I like the diffuse soundscape and effects of bipolar surrounds (with the 2 tweeters, and in my case 2 woofers too).

I have run traditional speakers as rears before and for 5.1 music I prefer them. But I don't listen to that anymore. I find for movies a traditional speaker is a little too pin point.

It was also easier for me to place the surrounds at the sides. I find bipolar speakers better in that placement too.

Mostly movies for you, or do you do surround music too?


************************************************************
Thanks for the reply - it is 70-30 music - movies. Your observations are actually very accurate and helpful. I am very new to surround sound setup (about a year or so).
Very stubborn stereo-only for years, but then wanted to experiment with multi-channel recordings, just to check what is that all about. Well, I was actually shocked to find out how enjoyable are real surround sound recordings. My SACD's played in 5 channels are just something special. My listening space is "saturated" in sound and narrow point of stereo imaging is not hat important anymore, at least in my experience.
Your observations that bipolar setup might be optimal for movies, due to usually having effects dispersion possibly across multiple seats is bang on.
As you mentioned, ordinary speakers pointed to my seat in surround sound recordings are excellent choice.
Thanks again.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:56 pm 
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Location: hawkesbury, ON, CA
dipole are good for surround if you have enough space behind.they need room to make a nice affect. if not then bookshelf are preferable.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:42 pm 
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zon001 wrote:
dipole are good for surround if you have enough space behind.they need room to make a nice affect. if not then bookshelf are preferable.

Proper dipoles for surrounds look like this:
Image

And are designed to be wall mounted.
The key to making these work is to mount them directly to the sides so that the null point (flat baffle with no drivers) are pointing directly at your ears.
If you cannot achieve that then go with regular (monopole) speakers.

The key to a realistic surround setup with monopoles is to be able to place the speakers far enough from your ears that no single speaker is close to you.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:18 pm 
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Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
Jared Rachwalski wrote:
zon001 wrote:
dipole are good for surround if you have enough space behind.they need room to make a nice affect. if not then bookshelf are preferable.

Proper dipoles for surrounds look like this:
Image

And are designed to be wall mounted.
The key to making these work is to mount them directly to the sides so that the null point (flat baffle with no drivers) are pointing directly at your ears.
If you cannot achieve that then go with regular (monopole) speakers.

The key to a realistic surround setup with monopoles is to be able to place the speakers far enough from your ears that no single speaker is close to you.

********************************
Thanks Jared

My application cannot support on wall installation....as you mentioned, so I will go with mono-poles.

Sasha


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:45 pm 
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sasha99 wrote:
Thanks Jared

My application cannot support on wall installation....as you mentioned, so I will go with mono-poles.

Sasha


Good choice.
Do not discount the benefit of matching the rears to the front esp. if you like surround music.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:57 am 
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Location: st-basile, QC, CA
paradigm or focal are good


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:49 am 
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Location: Vaughan, ON, CA
Jared Rachwalski wrote:
Do not discount the benefit of matching the rears to the front esp. if you like surround music.

This - especially for music. Also best to match centre channel (if you need one) to fronts, if you have the space.
For just HT, you have more flexibility.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:31 am 
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My speakers are Tannoy MXr all around including the CC. They are small but work well in my room. Being the "same" speaker they blend in quiet well with music videos. Balance is a good thing.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:38 am 
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I recently moved from using direct monopole speakers to dipoles in my system. I use the surrounds mostly for HT, but also occasionally for music. I prefer the dipoles, because for pipe organ music, it more accurately represents church ambiance. They don't call attention to themselves, but somewhat relieve the silence in the sides and back of my room.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:32 am 
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Location: Edmonton, AB, CA
I'm also of the dipole persuasion in my smallish HT room. I went from bookshelves to dipoles for HT and never looked back. I currently use Magnepan MG10's and since they are a natural dipole speaker they are superb for rear channel use in music and HT applications. When I was using B&W Matrix speakers the bookshelf B&W Matrix 805 sounded excellent as rears but you could always pinpoint their location and they always drew attention to themselves. I went over to B&W bipole/dipoles and they had excellent ambient qualities and you couldn't easily pinpoint their location. Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon in 5.1 surround never sounded better! My wife didn't want me to wall mount any speakers so I used very tall speaker stands with great results. Try them both and decide for yourself but I'm pretty sure you'll notice bookshelf speakers used as the back channels unless your room is very large. Also realize that Dipole speakers and the front/rear speakers are wired out of phase specifically for surround use, the better ones are switchable between direct (bipole) and out of phase (dipole) so you can use them anywhere.

Here's a good read for you. http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/surround-speaker-dipole-vs-bipole

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:15 pm 
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Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
Thank you all guys, excellent tips, observations and links.
Sasha


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