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 Post subject: Center Speaker Above Tv?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:09 pm 
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Location: Newmarket, ON, CA
Has anyone ever tried putting the centre speaker above the tv? If so what was the result? does it sound funny? Also I have atmos built into the ceiling i wonder if placing the centre speaker to close to the ceiling would interfere with those? The centre speaker would be about 35 inches from the ceiling.

Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:27 pm 
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Location: Edmonton, AB, CA
What you are planning on doing is going against the WAF principle :P

I had a centre channel hung right above the projector screen, all you need to do is get a laser level so you can angle the speaker downward so it is on the same plane as your ears.

Your Atmos speakers will hopefully be placed where they should be, and given that, I do not think you will have any sonic degradation issues


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:53 pm 
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Stas1234 wrote:
Has anyone ever tried putting the centre speaker above the tv? If so what was the result? does it sound funny? Also I have atmos built into the ceiling i wonder if placing the centre speaker to close to the ceiling would interfere with those? The centre speaker would be about 35 inches from the ceiling.

Thoughts?

My center channel in my surround system has always been above the TV, sounds fine to me, not funny at all...

Regards
Ohms

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:58 pm 
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I have done the same without issue.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:59 pm 
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Location: st-basile, QC, CA
me too is above tv no problem and its a totem just put it at a angle and good to go


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:18 pm 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
In Jim Smiths "Get Better Sound", he says its "best" to have the speakers within 18" of each other vertically.

What you may lose by being outside that range is some quality of the imaging.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:08 pm 
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Location: Newmarket, ON, CA
Thanks for the replies!

-- 05 Aug 2016 00:11 --

I am leaning towards raising my TV 3 inches and putting the speaker underneath it, that way it will be at the same level as my left and right tweeters, the limited research I have done shows that having it on the same level is the best.

Just don't like having the tv raised too high and have to look up when watching it but I guess 3 inches should not make a difference.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:39 am 
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Location: Toronto, ON, CA
I personally have found it to sound very weird. YMMV.

I had to ditch the concept of dedicated centers once I realized how poor they actually sounded and how badly they throw off imaging of vocals.
I now use an identical floor stander to my fronts , everything is level, tv is above and behind on a gear rack now and I'm incredibly happy.

Posting photos in another thread.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:41 am 
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Location: West of GTA Boonies, ON, CA
AudiOhm wrote:
Stas1234 wrote:
Has anyone ever tried putting the centre speaker above the tv? If so what was the result? does it sound funny? Also I have atmos built into the ceiling i wonder if placing the centre speaker to close to the ceiling would interfere with those? The centre speaker would be about 35 inches from the ceiling.

Thoughts?

My center channel in my surround system has always been above the TV, sounds fine to me, not funny at all...

Regards
Ohms


+1


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:12 am 
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http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-wa ... l-mtm.html

This wasn't the link I was looking for but reading through quickly highlights alot of my issues with MTM centers placed horizontally.
There's an AVS thread about this which is excellent. If I find it I will link to it.

Essentially, it throws everything off, people do it merely for convenience.


Quote:
If you want a nasty surprise try auditioning some of your favorite pieces of music strictly through a MTM-layout Center speaker, with the Left and Right speakers silenced.

I listened to a number of Center speakers from some pretty expensive vendors, at prices up to $5,000, and the sound quality was pretty bad from most of them. The Left and Right speakers, by comparison, were more in the hi-fi league, and most were listenable.

My takeaway? Not only is the MTM layout flawed, but most Center speakers aimed at the home-theater market, even those at very high price points, do not have flat response, and don't even match the L & R speakers from the same vendor.


Please do not do this, please do not. I've learnt my lesson the hard way. It does mess with everything. Go ahead, mute all the other channels on a film that mixes vocals heavily to the centre, tell me your centre doesnt sound horrible. Identical speakers to your mains, place them vertically. End of story.


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The reason for a second woofer in an MTM is to be able to use two smaller woofers rather than one larger woofer, allowing a higher crossover point to the tweeter, eliminating the complexity of a 3 way system with the same dispersion. It also gives better vertical pattern control. The key word is 'vertical'; for an MTM to work per the design intent the speaker must be vertically aligned. When horizontally aligned as is done in most center speakers there are no advantages and many disadvantages, including lobed response and narrowed dispersion. So why do manufactures do it anyway? Because consumers aren't aware of these facts, and where there's a buyer willing to spend money on a product there will be at least two sellers ready to take his money.




-- 15 Aug 2016 11:24 --

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=89614

Here we go. A great post about why centers placed horizontally are THE WORST. When people judge multichannel audio, then I look at their rigs... I know why they're complaining.



Quote:
CONCLUSIONS

Let us summarizes some of the the problems that may occur with standard MTM horizontal center channel speakers.
Increase in sound at certain frequencies and cancellation at other frequencies.
Poor off-axis response and narrowing of sweet spot.
Poorer vertical response as you stand up or sit on a higher chair.
Horizontal lobing with hot and cold spots.
Coloration of the tone.
Poor comprehension and intelligibility of speech.
Lack of music clarity.
Poor imaging and its shift from the middle.


You do not have to limit yourself to a traditional horizontal MTM center speaker. You have several options:


Turn your center speaker vertically for improved frequency response performance across your home theater.
Use a two-way speaker for the center channel.
Buy a center channel speaker that has drivers that are not on the same horizontal axis.
Buy a slightly curved center channel speaker.
The best and final solution is to use three identical vertical speakers in the front.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:28 am 
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5.1 setup is no different than 2 channel.

If you can hear the sound coming directly from the speaker then the setup is incorrect.

Funny, when I watch a 5.1 movie (center channel above TV) the sounds are coming from the TV not my speakers...

Regards
Ohms

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:49 am 
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Location: Burlington, ON, CA
I currently have a traditionally oriented center under my TV (60 plasma).

When I ran all the in wall speaker wire years ago, I left enough to move the center above the display if I ever go PJ (for which I also ran wire and outlet etc).

I value 2 channel WAY more than HT anyway, and the HT gear is really there for my family for movie nights. I am usually listening to just my 2 channel setup that shares the same space.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:13 am 
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AudiOhm wrote:
5.1 setup is no different than 2 channel.

If you can hear the sound coming directly from the speaker then the setup is incorrect.

Funny, when I watch a 5.1 movie (center channel above TV) the sounds are coming from the TV not my speakers...

Regards
Ohms

With all due respect you also stated:
AudiOhm wrote:
My center channel in my surround system has always been above the TV, sounds fine to me, not funny at all...

Regards
Ohms


Have you tried it below?

Not saying your setup sounds funny but if you have never tried it below the TV how would you know?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:50 am 
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Jared Rachwalski wrote:
AudiOhm wrote:
5.1 setup is no different than 2 channel.

If you can hear the sound coming directly from the speaker then the setup is incorrect.

Funny, when I watch a 5.1 movie (center channel above TV) the sounds are coming from the TV not my speakers...

Regards
Ohms

With all due respect you also stated:
AudiOhm wrote:
My center channel in my surround system has always been above the TV, sounds fine to me, not funny at all...

Regards
Ohms


Have you tried it below?

Not saying your setup sounds funny but if you have never tried it below the TV how would you know?

How would I know what?

If it sounds fine to me where it is, why would I move it?

I guess you missed the point...If you can hear the sound coming directly from the speaker then the setup is incorrect.

Funny, when I watch a 5.1 movie (center channel above TV) the sounds are coming from the TV not my speakers...

Regards
Ohms

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I stand for the National Anthem.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:15 am 
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AudiOhm wrote:
How would I know what?

If it sounds fine to me where it is, why would I move it?

I guess you missed the point...If you can hear the sound coming directly from the speaker then the setup is incorrect.

Funny, when I watch a 5.1 movie (center channel above TV) the sounds are coming from the TV not my speakers...

Regards
Ohms

If it sounds funny - compared to placing it below the screen.

Having the sound come directly from the TV is only one aspect.
The other is proper panning across all three speakers.


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