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 Post subject: Re: OLED Worth the $$?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:39 pm 
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I was in Staples today and held two 12" tablets, one in each hand. One was an OLED, the other conventional LCD-over-LED backlight. Very easy to see the differences.
I'd suggest you do the same. It's easy (they're right next to each other on the display counter) and you can check different sources from websites to Netflix and see which you like better.
How often do we get to do true A/B testing?
And this test is completely free! 8)

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 Post subject: Re: OLED Worth the $$?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:54 am 
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good sound wrote:
Teo Audio wrote:
hello,

Apologies --but no. (If I sound contentious, it's due to such talk being a well developed muscle. I've been on the net discussing audio, since ~1993. We practically had to use horses to get the messages around :) )

I know that OLED still has burn issues and that such unmoving bright images will cause burn in, in a situation likened to that of plasma burn.

Not quite the same, technically, but image burn is the result, with respect to what people see and how they describe it.

Depending on how the OLED Television is set up, how long the bright image is held, and so on, this will predict level of burn and time frame before it is noted by the human eye. In the LG set up at the local best buy, the TV was in full dynamic image mode, so it was over bright, over contrasted. Like a rear projection CRT TV or large ceiling mount CRT, or a plasma TV..when each of those are not adjusted correctly, burn in can occur very quickly. So I agree that it may have been a local issue, a calibration issue.



Burn in can be slowed but will eventually overcome each of those technologies. OLED technology, in it's current form, is sadly on that list as well.

In a darkened room, used for film viewing, like a cinema, the LG 4k TV's are stunning, Like that of a perfected CRT projection system. Only with the advent of OLED flatscreens can we finally say that CRT contrast ratio is eclipsed. (I'm kind of forgetting the better plasma's, here) That we can finally put away the CRT projector as the true king of the contrast hill, with a full on 20k:1 contrast ratio in a given single frame. All other technologies like that of LCD, and DILA, the Sony equivalent, etc, they can only muster a 1k:1 contrast ratio, at best, in the given single frame. On a good day. Mostly... they can't do it.

There is only the three that can show you true contrast that is actually lifelike...and they all suffer from early death issues as their form of a handicap. And that's CRT, Plasma, and now OLED.

I have high hopes for OLED. I very much hope that it gets there. I'll pay just about anything for that incredible (single frame) Contrast ratio that mimics real life. And I have. If I had the money I would buy a 4k OLED for the contrast ratio --- in a heart beat. I would use it exclusively for film viewing, and keep the LCD around for general use. I can no longer deal with CRT projection and plasma.

As for DLP? DLP seems to sit in the middle, between that of the CRT/Plasma/OLED and the "LCD/DILA/SXRD" projection devices. DLP, properly done, can be very good. But they (good DLP examples) are so few and far between.


Personally I don't see any information here that would or should scare me, or anyone else, off of purchasing a modern 4K OLED display. It sounds like as long as you take the proper care and precaution and don't operate the OLED in torch mode 24/7 you shouldn't expect to encounter any burn in type issues any sooner or any more severe than any other fixed pixel technology device. Many, many people have purchased Plasma displays as well as other types of displays that are susceptible to burn in and run them for years without any issues all the while at the time of Plasma's release, stores made the same mistake with them as well. My friend Art has a Pioneer Elite plasma that he purchased in 2003 and uses several hours a day and has had no burn in issues. I set the TV up for him and warned him about the dangers of leaving static images on the display for extended periods.

Warning people of potential issues or pitfalls is one thing and all well and good, but not qualifying the information in it's proper perspective can lead some to believe that the new OLED sets are not a viable option when in fact they absolutely are and an amazing performing one at that, with absolutely no reason to believe that with proper set-up and care can't deliver many years of trouble free state of the art video performance in all viewing environments.

Wow, now there's a run on sentence for ya!
Agree 100%. I've seen phosphor burn on CRT displays so bad that the image was visible even with the screen off. These were surplus TVs probably used in retail to display item prices and would've been bright, with the image unchanging for days on end. For residential use this would not normally be an issue unless the resident leaves the display for long periods on a cable news channel, which would be a serious waste of an OLED or plasma screen.

I have what must be oldest functioning CRT television on CAM...a 27" Trinitron I bought in the late '80s....one of very earliest capable of decoding stereo broadcasts. Thanks to a digital converter box it still lives and sees daily use. Apart from a tiny blush of green on the lower left corner, the image is still quite good with brilliant contrast, and no evidence of phosphor burn whatsoever. Not bad for a TV that must have tens of thousands of hours on it...and has never had the back removed for repair or cleaning.

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 Post subject: Re: OLED Worth the $$?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:08 pm 
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That is amazing Rip, especially for a Sony. I owned a string of Sony's starting with the very first XBR back in the mid eighties, and had serious issues with every single one of them. The only reason I stayed with Sony for so long was because but for a few exceptions from a few high end off brands like Loewe, the picture quality of the XBR sets was so much better than any other CRT direct view sets of the day, including the Panasonic Gao, which while good was not in the same class as the XBR Trinitrons.

I am just happy that Sony doesn't enjoy the same performance domination in the fixed pixel arena. I just can't see myself ever buying another Sony television.

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 Post subject: Re: OLED Worth the $$?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:13 pm 
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good sound wrote:
That is amazing Rip, especially for a Sony. I owned a string of Sony's starting with the very first XBR back in the mid eighties, and had serious issues with every single one of them. The only reason I stayed with Sony for so long was because but for a few exceptions from a few high end off brands like Loewe, the picture quality of the XBR sets was so much better than any other CRT direct view sets of the day, including the Panasonic Gao, which while good was not in the same class as the XBR Trinitrons.

I am just happy that Sony doesn't enjoy the same performance domination in the fixed pixel arena. I just can't see myself ever buying another Sony television.


My Wega has performed flawlessly since 2004 and still has a stunnng picture when compared to today's sets.


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 Post subject: Re: OLED Worth the $$?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:20 pm 
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I guess I am lucky, GS. I keep waiting for it to die, but I'm pretty certain whatever it is I replace it with won't last nearly as long. In the meantime, I can't bring myself to haul it to the curb for no good reason other than it's not the latest and greatest. Well that, plus it weighs a ton. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: OLED Worth the $$?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:21 pm 
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Tangram wrote:
good sound wrote:
That is amazing Rip, especially for a Sony. I owned a string of Sony's starting with the very first XBR back in the mid eighties, and had serious issues with every single one of them. The only reason I stayed with Sony for so long was because but for a few exceptions from a few high end off brands like Loewe, the picture quality of the XBR sets was so much better than any other CRT direct view sets of the day, including the Panasonic Gao, which while good was not in the same class as the XBR Trinitrons.

I am just happy that Sony doesn't enjoy the same performance domination in the fixed pixel arena. I just can't see myself ever buying another Sony television.


My Wega has performed flawlessly since 2004 and still has a stunnng picture when compared to today's sets.


I owned no less than five XBR Trinitrons from the mid nineteen eighties to 2010 when I purchased my current Toshiba Regza LED including a first generation 36 inch XBR Wega flat screen. I had serious issues with every single one of them and even worse than that, Sony's customer service is simply deplorable.

-- 08 Jul 2016 16:24 --

ripblade wrote:
I guess I am lucky, GS. I keep waiting for it to die, but I'm pretty certain whatever it is I replace it with won't last nearly as long. In the meantime, I can't bring myself to haul it to the curb for no good reason other than it's not the latest and greatest. Well that, plus it weighs a ton. :lol:


Ya, my XBR Wega weighed 236lbs.

My current LED has been on virtually 24/7 for six years without even the smallest blip and still looks great.

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 Post subject: Re: OLED Worth the $$?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:03 pm 
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Watching the Euro final on Rogers 4K. Man. Anyone who says 4K is no better than 1080P is either nuts or not using the right equipment or material.

Just compared back to back and no comparison.


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 Post subject: Re: OLED Worth the $$?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:01 pm 
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hfisher3380 wrote:
Watching the Euro final on Rogers 4K. Man. Anyone who says 4K is no better than 1080P is either nuts or not using the right equipment or material.

Just compared back to back and no comparison.



I'd assume those that say there is no difference between 4K & 1080P probably haven't seen 4K with proper source material. I have a Panasonic GT50 plasma which I think has a great 1080P picture, I saw a 4K demo at TAVES a couple years back & the difference was easily noticed. It was the first time I saw a 2D picture that almost looked 3D because the picture had so much depth, it was impressive to say the least.

Not sure if there is any truth to this but when I was in 2001 & was chatting to a guy about the LG 4K sets he had said that LG came up with a solution to the short life span of the blue, so this wasn't an issue with their sets. Said they patent the technology so all the other manufacturers had to come up with another solution & were having problems doing so (hence why some brands seem to have backed out for the moment). When the other brands have a solution to this, prices should start coming down, as currently LG doesn't have any real competition on OLED.

Once I switched to plasma I have a hard time watching LED with their poor black levels & spotlighting, it drives me crazy watching them now.


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 Post subject: Re: OLED Worth the $$?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:14 am 
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Hi all,

Just circling back with an update. After himming and hawing for a couple of months, I purchased the LG OLED 55B6P. I will take delivery in a week or so. This is the bottom of the line OLED in LG's current lineup. In comparing the set with the current competition, when fed the best source material there really is no contest. Yes, it is a bit pricey, but it is replacing a set that I bought 12 years ago so I expect this one to be around a long time. Some members on AV Forums have had various niggling issues, esp. with UHD content, but if you look hard enough on the 'Net that is almost always the case.

I will let you know how this set performs, especially with SD content, as most reviews tend to ignore this, yet we have lots of SD content that we still view, as I am sure many of you do.

Really looking forward to getting the TV set up but it will need to wait until after Thanksgiving. Stay tuned.


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 Post subject: Re: OLED Worth the $$?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:31 am 
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Tangram wrote:
zon001 wrote:
when you say 4 k and 1080p have no difference, that is false, 4 k is 4 time higher resolution, and it shows specificly on big screen, the problem with 4 k is there is no 4 k content, a few station are starting to produce 4 k like videotron hockey night, but only available trough videotron cable. so all others have to be upconvert, and yes there is not much difference when upconverting a signal from 1080 p to 4 k , but you cannot say there is no difference.
when movies and television will have more 4 k content. you will be very pleased to know you are ready, specialy if you don t intend to change your next tv set very soon.


I have to disagree. I watch 4K Netflix through a Roku 4 projected onto a 110 inch screen. From my viewing distance, 1O-11 feet, there is no difference between 1080P and 4K. Smaller screens would definitely be no different from a normal viewing distance.


Is your projector capable of displaying a 4k signal? Not many 4k projectors out there yet and very very expensive?
Also is your Roku 4 able to output 4k?

-- 02 Oct 2016 13:40 --

I have Samsungs top end plasma still. I called bell and ordered a 4k receiver to test it out. I set the receiver to output at 1080p.
Since normal HD channels from bell are native 720p you CAN tell a difference between the HD channels and the 4K channels.
It was an interesting test and I ended up keeping the 4k box. Waiting for the new samsung qdot and the Lg's to come out to
see if I'm ready to make the jump. My biggest issue is motion. I love watching a good hockey game and noticed a lot of pixel trailing
when watching hockey on the newer LED tv's. I have heard the new OLED Tv's are very good at high motion but since a 65" is $6000
i wanted to wait for the prices to come down. Apparently the new LG OLEDS are going to be offered a lower price.

Check this out too
http://ca.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-usage/sports/best


Hope this helps
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 Post subject: Re: OLED Worth the $$?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:44 am 
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kawihornet wrote:
Tangram wrote:
zon001 wrote:
when you say 4 k and 1080p have no difference, that is false, 4 k is 4 time higher resolution, and it shows specificly on big screen, the problem with 4 k is there is no 4 k content, a few station are starting to produce 4 k like videotron hockey night, but only available trough videotron cable. so all others have to be upconvert, and yes there is not much difference when upconverting a signal from 1080 p to 4 k , but you cannot say there is no difference.
when movies and television will have more 4 k content. you will be very pleased to know you are ready, specialy if you don t intend to change your next tv set very soon.


I have to disagree. I watch 4K Netflix through a Roku 4 projected onto a 110 inch screen. From my viewing distance, 1O-11 feet, there is no difference between 1080P and 4K. Smaller screens would definitely be no different from a normal viewing distance.


Is your projector capable of displaying a 4k signal? Not many 4k projectors out there yet and very very expensive?
Also is your Roku 4 able to output 4k?


Yes, but I call it "pseudo 4K", which is accomplished by doubling and offsetting by half a pixel. But it does accept a 4K signal. It is considered one of the better projectors currently on the market. And no lamp to replace! It is the first projector to use a laser light source.

I agree that I haven't fed it the best 4K signal. I should do so and revisit re: 1080P vs. 4K. I don't have cable so I am stuck with 4K Netflix via Roku 4 (bought it for the 4K capabilities). It will be a long time before I invest in. 4K Blu Ray player. So tired of buying the same movie in multiple formats! Rather spend my software $ on vinyl these days!


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 Post subject: Re: OLED Worth the $$?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:49 am 
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Can't argue that! Esp since this is Canuck Audio Mart and not Canuck Video Mart. lol

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 Post subject: Re: OLED Worth the $$?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:55 am 
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OLED is very interesting. I'm not a fan of LED panels in general but the two OLED's that I've had a chance to watch were very close to the depth and richness I get with plasma.
If it was my money I might wait a bit.
As for image burn, I have a 55" Panasonic plasma (ST series?) that gets a lot of use. I thought I had an image burn problem.
When watching hockey, with the white ice, I could clearly see the A&E banner on the ice. It was annoying as hell as was the thought I had screwed up my TV.
I did a little research and found a couple things.
Screen Wiper- It's a moving image of bars that in essence wipes out these retained images (most sets have some sort of arrangement) of course if the burn in is too bad your likely screwed.
Pixel orbiter- does just what it says and goes a long way to prevent image retention and has zero effect on picture quality that I can see.
Static pictures- not the best idea. A friend at work used a nice family photo on his 60" plasma as a sort of home page. It stayed on for hours day after day forever. During certain scenes you could clearly see an outline of the photo. Luckily it didn't bother him at all.
Back to the LG. It's one of the best LED (OLED or not) screens out there.
Q: How can Panasonic make a killer plasma TV and be so mediocre when it comes to LED. :?

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 Post subject: Re: OLED Worth the $$?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:59 am 
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mahatma1 wrote:
OLED is very interesting. I'm not a fan of LED panels in general but the two OLED's that I've had a chance to watch were very close to the depth and richness I get with plasma.
If it was my money I might wait a bit.
As for image burn, I have a 55" Panasonic plasma (ST series?) that gets a lot of use. I thought I had an image burn problem.
When watching hockey, with the white ice, I could clearly see the A&E banner on the ice. It was annoying as hell as was the thought I had screwed up my TV.
I did a little research and found a couple things.
Screen Wiper- It's a moving image of bars that in essence wipes out these retained images (most sets have some sort of arrangement) of course if the burn in is too bad your likely screwed.
Pixel orbiter- does just what it says and goes a long way to prevent image retention and has zero effect on picture quality that I can see.
Static pictures- not the best idea. A friend at work used a nice family photo on his 60" plasma as a sort of home page. It stayed on for hours day after day forever. During certain scenes you could clearly see an outline of the photo. Luckily it didn't bother him at all.
Back to the LG. It's one of the best LED (OLED or not) screens out there.
Q: How can Panasonic make a killer plasma TV and be so mediocre when it comes to LED. :?


I recently read an article that Panasonic has plans to end tv production...

-- 02 Oct 2016 14:04 --

Sorry after reading again they will stop making there own panels and will use third party panels after September

http://www.techradar.com/news/televisio ... ns-1322469

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 Post subject: Re: OLED Worth the $$?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:02 pm 
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Well I have had a chance to play around with my B6 and I am a happy camper. First, it is attractive "in the flesh" (I set it up on a console instead of wall mounting). I calibrated using the recommended AVForums settings for ISF Darkroom but in fairness, the unit probably should be run in for a couple of weeks before calibrating. 4K Netflix is a real treat. The LG Web OS works well and is very responsive.

There truly isn't a better quality picture than OLED. The B6 is the bottom of the LG current OLED lineup but by all accounts there is no image quality difference across the line. The photo below doesn't do the image justice; just wanted to show how the tv looks set up. Note that this is the flat, not curved, version. The ipad camera distorts the image.


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