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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 4:26 pm 
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Is plagiarism the sincerest form of flattery? Check out Horace Silver's "Song for my Father" and compare the start with Steely Dan's "Rickie Don't lose that Number".

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:27 pm 
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Winter_vinyl wrote:
Is plagiarism the sincerest form of flattery? Check out Horace Silver's "Song for my Father" and compare the start with Steely Dan's "Rickie Don't lose that Number".


Yes, pretty much a direct copy. Must have heard the Dan version a thousand times before I purchased the Silver album last year. What a wonderful album! Bluenote re-release from 2012.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 6:20 pm 
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At least they didn't get sued for plagiarizing themselves like John Fogerty did back in 1985 during his solo career when he wrote the song called "The Old man down the road".

The oddest case of litigation in pop music history, though, might be John Fogerty's being sued, effectively, for plagiarizing himself. That is, when Fogerty left Fantasy Records for Warner Brothers Records, he relinquished control over his earlier Creedence Clearwater Revival material to Fantasy, in exchange for contractual release. This came back to haunt him later, when Saul Zaentz of Fantasy sued Fogerty, claiming that the artist's 1985 solo number, "The Old Man Down The Road," was a self-plagiarism of the earlier CCR cut, "Run Through The Jungle." Bringing his guitar to the witness stand when the issue went to court, Fogerty was able to suggest the tunes were separate entities, and convinced a judge to dismiss the suit, thus precluding what might have been one of the most ironic creative-property decisions in pop music history.

http://www.songfacts.com/blog/writing/a_history_of_plagiarism_in_songs/


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 6:24 pm 
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Yes, but did Steely Dan ever get sued over the plagiarism?


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 6:38 pm 
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Might be that it was an homage to Horace and he was flattered, or not. Steely Dan's music oozes jazz influence and is probably highly respected by other musicians for it's complexity and spliff worthy riffs. 8)

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:11 pm 
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"I hope that I may inspire some of the youth of today, as these musicians inspired, and still do inspire me."

I don't think he cared much about suing people. He was the real deal.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:31 pm 
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OBI56 wrote:
Yes, but did Steely Dan ever get sued over the plagiarism?


You, sir, are a picker of fly speck from pepper mils.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:44 pm 
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Winter_vinyl wrote:
OBI56 wrote:
Yes, but did Steely Dan ever get sued over the plagiarism?


You, sir, are a picker of fly speck from pepper mils.


LOL!!!

Tube54 is the one who brought up the subject of lawsuits; I was just expanding on the subject. There have been so many music related lawsuits, many for stuff that is far less obvious. I have been a huge Steely Dan fan since day 1, but had never even heard the Horace Silver sone so was not aware of the eerie similarity between the 2.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:58 pm 
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Irony: became a fan of Horace Silver about 12 years ago, accumulated as much of his stuff as I could over the time and he's my favorite jazz artist, no contest. I bought a Steely Dan's Greatest hits CD a few years back, nice stuff, I just never really got into it so much.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:08 pm 
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Rickie don`t lose that number
Tom Robinson Band 1984

Atmospherics-Listen To The Radio
Peter Gabriel/Tom Robinson
Covered by Pukka Orchestra


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 9:22 pm 
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Plagiarism?!? :roll:
It wasn't the whole song, just the intro notes.
Thousands have musicians have intentionally added small snippets of music from another artists' songs as a tribute/tip of the hat.
It is not "copying" them or "plagiarism".


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 10:38 pm 
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OBI56 wrote:
Winter_vinyl wrote:
OBI56 wrote:
Yes, but did Steely Dan ever get sued over the plagiarism?


You, sir, are a picker of fly speck from pepper mils.


LOL!!!

Tube54 is the one who brought up the subject of lawsuits; I was just expanding on the subject. There have been so many music related lawsuits, many for stuff that is far less obvious. I have been a huge Steely Dan fan since day 1, but had never even heard the Horace Silver sone so was not aware of the eerie similarity between the 2.


Not to worry, I was just tugging your beard! I am also a big Steely Dan fan and when I heard the Horace Silver song on Jazz91 I was struck by how the opening notes are identical. I was familiar with Silver, but don't know his music well enough to have been familiar with the piece prior to now.
I also listen to a lot of classical music and it's amazing how many times I've heard a strain from a classical piece in the riffs from some piece of pop or jazz music.
I believe there's a line from a Pablo pressing of jazz recorded in Europe by Laurindo Almeida that goes something like this: "If you copy one piece of music, it's plagiarism, but if you copy many pieces, it's research".

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 10:56 pm 
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AVguy wrote:
Plagiarism?!? :roll:
It wasn't the whole song, just the intro notes.
Thousands have musicians have intentionally added small snippets of music from another artists' songs as a tribute/tip of the hat.
It is not "copying" them or "plagiarism".

Many artists have been sued for just a few intro notes or a riff and successfully at that. But in this case it might have been a hard sell seeing as the basic melody was taken from Portuguese folk music.


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 3:02 am 
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Rich Terfry has a nice little feature on his afternoon show "Drive" on CBC which he calls "Musical Cousins" where he plays songs that listeners suggest bear a strong resemblance to one another. There are oodles of examples like this. You should suggest this one.

I submitted a suggestion a while back pointing out how the chorus in "Drive in Movies" by Ray LaMontagne mirrors the chorus in "Listen to the Music" by The Doobie Brothers. Is it plagiarism or homage? You'd probably have to ask LaMontagne that one. :D

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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 3:06 am 
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OBI56 wrote:
Yes, but did Steely Dan ever get sued over the plagiarism?



The point being?

-- 04 May 2017 11:08 --

Jazz and Jazz-like are not the same. Just sayin'...


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